DNA, Lamanites and Book of Mormon
Simon Southerton, geneticist and author of Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA and the Mormon Church, has taken up a crusade to “[examine] church teachings that American Indians and Polynesians have a historic bond with ancient Israelites.” He does so by using DNA research and applying it to current popular opinion of members of the Church and writings of some scholars with the Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies.
This seems to be a thorny issue for Southerton. He left the Church because there seemed to be no conclusive evidence that supported the widely held notion among Latter-day Saints that Pacific Islanders and indigenous people of the Americas were descended from the Lamanites.
First, I find it unbelievable—actually, I can believe it, but it still is dumbfounding—that someone’s conviction to the Church can be swayed by scientific evidence. The Book of Mormon is not a scientific journal. It does not establish scientific fact and does not even heavily support scientific theories. It is nothing more than a spiritual record—interspersed with select historical information—of a distinct, isolated group of people.
Second, there is no indication whatsoever in the Book of Mormon that the Lamanites and Nephites were completely alone in the Americas. To say otherwise is nothing more than speculation. It is entirely plausible and even likely that the Lamanites and Nephites encountered—and even mingled with—other peoples already present in the Americas. This alone would reduce any existence of Israelite DNA. As well, it is entirely plausible that the Lamanite population died off or were exterminated; after all, the record of their history is incomplete.
Third, popular belief among Latter-day Saints does not equal doctrine. Just because many Latter-day Saints hold on to the archaic notion that all people indigenous to the Americas are descended solely from Lehi, does not make it church doctrine. I wish more people would understand this one principle. Tradition is not doctrine.
The Book of Mormon is primarily a religious book containing teachings and doctrine about God and Jesus Christ. To treat it primarily as anything else is to treat it as a very shaky foundation.
That being said, it only take a smidgen of logic to see that DNA research does not disprove the Book of Mormon. One would think a scientist like Southerton would understand that.
Popularity: 16% [?]
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MY THEORY ABOUT THE LAMANITES AS GOOD AS ANY OTHER.
I believe that most American Indians are in fact descended from the Lamanites. 66% of American Indians have a Y chromosome that can’t be traced to any population in the old world. The mainstream scientific view is that it originated by mutation in America or Beringia within a genetic bottleneck. This is actually consistent with the Book of Mormon (BOM). Ergo I theorize that the owner of this Y chromosome was Laman and the mutation did not take place in Beringia but Jerusalem when Laman was conceived.
The studies of MtDNA are irrelevant. Only one woman in Lehi’s group could have passed her MtDNA down even to the next generation. That would be Ishmael’s wife. Lehi had only sons. Ergo the MtDNA of his wife died with her. It is also true that MtDNA could get from Siberia to Jerusalem via the slave trade, political marriages or a combination thereof.
The Nephites found a larger group of people (Mulekites) and incorporated with them. Despite this fact, they still called themselves Nephites showing a greater regard for religious faith than lineage. It is also likely that Laman’s descendents got women from other groups, but still retained the name of Laman. How else would they increase so fast? Eventually they became more numerous than the Mulekite-Nephites. Why would this happen? The Nephites didn’t practice birth control. One way would be that the Lamanites practiced polygamy and got women from other groups.
Mulekite history says they came from the Middle East but at a time of great antiquity. Ergo every human on Earth could have been descended from the group into which Mulek was born. I theorize the Pericues were Mulekites. This is also not terribly relevant to modern day Lamanites, because the Mulekite-Nephites were exterminated.
The existence of haplogroups in central Siberia similar to haplogroups in the Americas, no more proves a migration from Siberia to America than it proves migration from America to Siberia. Furthermore, those haplogroups could and probably do exist in the Middle East in a tiny minority of women.
SUMMARY
Nephites incorporated with Mulekites(Pericues) and they were exterminated together. The Lamanites were successful conquerors and took women from other groups who may or may not have been of Siberian origin. Eventually they dominated the hemisphere. The physical differences between American Indians and people of the Middle East are the result of a bottleneck effect and genetic drift. This can greatly alter allele frequencies and produce a people that look very different than the people from whom the founders came. This is the cause of most human diversity we see today. The difference may also be the result of intermarriage with other people. An example of this can be seen in the Lemba. Many Lemba have Y chromosomes of Hebrew (Levite) origin, but speak a Bantu language and are physically indistinguishable from other Bantus. The AmerIndians may have Laman’s Y chromosome but speak a language of non-semitic origin for similar reasons.
28 Sep 2005 @ 00:23 | Permalink
[...] Because of some “anti-Mormon literature” picked up by the AP from the LA Times regarding DNA and the Book of Mormon, a discussion ensued at work yesterday. [...]
18 Feb 2006 @ 09:04 | Permalink
[...] Our Thoughts 7/30/04 DNA Lamanites and Book of Mormon 7/21/05 Southerton Promoting Book Again 2/18/06 Traditional Doctrine [...]
10 Aug 2006 @ 07:37 | Permalink
[...] I wonder why didn’t wait another week. If he had, he could have done double duty by bringing about press for his new book, and celebrating the first anniversary of the last time he brought this up. [...]
10 Aug 2006 @ 07:47 | Permalink
Didn’t Nephi mention having sisters in 2 Nephi 5:6?
10 Aug 2006 @ 08:08 | Permalink
If you read Simon’s book, it completely destroys any chance that there was anything short of divine intervention in changing the genes of the occupants of North America if the BoM were an actual record of what transpired.
If you can reconcile the notion of a required intervention by gods, then you have no probelms with the findings of Mr. Southerton.
There really is no arguing with his findings … they’re pretty much water-tight.
10 Aug 2006 @ 08:21 | Permalink
Yes. Were they sisters or sisters-in-law however?
His findings? No. His presumptions? Yes.
His research efforts were fuelled by the idea that indigenous peoples in the Americas were all descend exclusively from Lamanites.
This presumption however is based solely on tradition. If Lamanites were not the only ancestors of the indigenous peoples then there is no point to his research.
10 Aug 2006 @ 09:10 | Permalink
Hmm…. where did I put those 116 pages…
;-)
10 Aug 2006 @ 09:23 | Permalink
Not entirely on point, really.
He argues that there should be a significant amount of tracable DNA in the population of the amerindian, if the large populations existed as described in the BoM.
10 Aug 2006 @ 10:06 | Permalink
And if those large populations were exclusively Israelite in ethnic origin. It is not unreasonable to assume many of those numbers were peoples who already lived there.
10 Aug 2006 @ 10:18 | Permalink
If you are enough of an Internet-mormon to take that stance, yes. =)
10 Aug 2006 @ 10:32 | Permalink
Is it possible that the stories from the BOM did not even happen in the America’s? Moroni wandered after the Nephites were destroyed.
I watched a TV show on cable where these blacks in Africa claim to be Jews. Their DNA was tested and they have Jewish DNA.
Their skin was changed to darkness. hum!!!
10 Aug 2006 @ 17:16 | Permalink
I am a student of Historical Linguistics and East Asian Cultures. I have been reading about the debate between scientific DNA mapping of the genes of the native people in ancient America.
In my studies, I too believe that the American Indians have Asiatic DNA and similarities in culture, appearance and the like.
Recently, I have read a book that might shed some light on the Asiatic DNA mixed with the American Indians. This book is by Gavin Menzies. The title is 1421 the year China Discovered America.
In this book, the author Gavin, has done extensive research as to the period of discovery during the Ming Dynasty and other Chinese Dynasties. He also refers repeatedly to the evidence of DNA and Chinese colonies and voyages that have happened during the 1400’s. Gavin Menzies states that the Chinese who went on these voyages took with them Arabs, people from India, and around the globe on these sea faring missions. He also states that these explorers were to set up settlements throughout the world to subjugate the countries into the Chinese tribute system. This would explain why the results of the DNA of American Indians would be the way that they are.
May I suggest, that we take a closer look to this book and the DNA evidence presented in it as the underlying answer as to why there is Chinese and Asiatic DNA found in the American Indian today?
It must also be noted that not only the Ming Dynasty circa 1368 to 1428 made these discoveries, but as far back as other early Chinese Dynasties have also made voyages of discoveries.
19 Jan 2007 @ 00:34 | Permalink
1 Feb 2007 @ 16:30 | Permalink
That’s cool. Thanks for posting it Doug.
1 Feb 2007 @ 19:05 | Permalink
Very interesting topic, and it looks like there has been much digging into the depths of DNA science.
Jumping back to Kim’s original comment about tradition not being doctrine, meaning just because most members have the idea that Lamanites are the principal ancestors of native americans does not make it doctrine. Obviously it’s the introduction to the Book of Mormon that introduces this confusion. It states that the Lamanites are the principal ancestors of the American Indians. Traditionally the word “principal” is interpreted as chief or majority. Yes it implies “not sole”, but also implies to many people the variants should not be overly significant.
I understand Southerton’s difficulty with the subject. When Discovery Channel can show a striking DNA match of a young Mongolian to an ancient Amazon warrior (DNA that would have been “diluted” by the natives of the region) then I can see how someone would be puzzled that native American DNA does not demonstrate Israelite lineage more clearly.
29 Aug 2007 @ 09:54 | Permalink
I’m not sure that it is obvious. Inf act, I would propose that the BOM introduction is a result of the confusion, not a cause of it.
29 Aug 2007 @ 10:01 | Permalink
I will quote Craig Ferguson by saying, “That is only if you believe in DNA testing.”
I don’t believe in carbon dating. Maybe as a church we should not believe in DNA testing.
29 Aug 2007 @ 12:27 | Permalink
I see no reason to not believe in carbon dating or DNA testing.
29 Aug 2007 @ 12:29 | Permalink
Jamie Trwth said: “I don’t believe in carbon dating. Maybe as a church we should not believe in DNA testing.”
Are you suggesting the Church restrict it members in what they can and cannot believe? Do you also believe the world is flat? That was religious teachings in the not too distant past.
30 Aug 2007 @ 08:48 | Permalink
The overall view of the Book of Mormon is that the Lamanites when they come unto the “law” they become as the Nephites: therefore causing to be no opposition at all. As they exist and commune with each other, they are as if there were no “ites” amongst them!
The Lord don’t give a rats, pardon the pun, of who’s who in the crew; really, He created “casts” so as we as human BEINGS can know that Wrong can only go so far, but Good is eternal and everlasting, and ‘How high is up? don’t tell me cause I don’t wont to know!
To be a Lamanite, is to be lost from the Lords path, not a particular blood line that is best left for the tea parties of those who talk with a plum in their mouth, for they, them themselves are Lamanites.
The best way to solve a problem is, don’t talk about it at all, for to do so only adds to the confusion and breeds the same.
The Lord will do his own work in his own time! He said so.
PS I am looking to speak with a so say “Lamanite” or rather a Native American LDS or other regarding a pacific belief that pre dates 2000 years or so.
My email: andrewjohnburridge@yahoo.com.au
24 Sep 2007 @ 19:58 | Permalink
“To be a Lamanite, is to be lost from the Lords path”
This is new. You might want to break it to the FAIR boys that they’ve had it wrong all these years…
25 Sep 2007 @ 08:47 | Permalink
“This is new. You might want to break it to the FAIR boys that they’ve had it wrong all these years…”
Typical rick… you’re such a Lamanite. ;-)
25 Sep 2007 @ 10:10 | Permalink
My two cents worth…
For better or worse, we all make decisions about who we are going to marry and what religion we are going to follow. Once those decisions are made, one should not look back with regret. The happiness of our families is at stake. I believe that God is forgiving. If we happen to pick an incorrect religion but live that religion with honor, we will still receive blessings. At this point, I don’t think that any religion is absolutely true, nor do I think that any religion is completely false. The Truth is found in bits and pieces from many sources and in many religions.
I now accept the fact that the BOM is not a literal history. However, I still believe the BOM is inspired, even if it is not divine. I think that all of this discussion about DNA has made me a lot less smug and lot more understanding about other religions. Bottom-line, we should all strive to live honorable lives. This end goal should be enough. Whatever happens in the after life, for me, it is what it is, and it will be enough. Personal actions speak louder and count more than beliefs or creeds.
brk
7 Oct 2007 @ 06:31 | Permalink
The posts about DNA cover a wide field but what about the other end of life, the spritual form of life that science rejects outright because it is not subject to the rules of life as science defines them, not so long ago the universal doctrine of science that no life can exist without sunlight was stood on its head when Dr Ballard who discovered the Titanic also discovered life is suprisingly abundant in the cold dark depths of the ocean. When scientists had recovered from there disbelief they investigated the proof Dr Ballard presented them with and came to the realisation that life be it in much less evolved forms than man, doe’s indeed live in the darkness quite indipendent of sunlight because it converts chemical energy pouring out from the sea bed at incredably high temperatures into nourishment for a food chain that sustains a great variety of lower life forms. It is this astonishing finding that has intensified the search for life elsewhere in the universe by some of the worlds best scientists who now reason that as it happens on earth it can happen elsewhere.
The point of my post is that now that science has outgrown its own version of the flat earth doctrine perhaps it will begin to concider that the highest form of biological life on earth has always been dependent on the light of the sun, and if life has evolved elsewhere because the conditions are comparable with those in which lower life forms can flourish on earth then by this truth life elsewhere will have to be biologicly speaking of the same primative forms it has taken on earth. The conclusion is that life elsewhere that has ‘evolved’ beyond mans biological light dependent state can only be of a spiritual perspective, just as we are given a fleeting look at in the scriptural refferences to angels ect.
Mr Smith did not as far as I know make any direct refferences to biological forms of life elsewhere, but somewhere he did refer to the planet Kolob…any thoughts on this?
terry
15 Aug 2009 @ 05:51 | Permalink
DNA evidence is pretty conclusive that the persons tested came from Asia tens of thousands of years ago. Yet the Book of Mormon states that Lehi and his family came from the mid east to the Americas about 2600 years ago. One explanation for this is that the DNA of the Lehites has disappeared. I posted in my blog about a year and a half ago an example that was published in Science magazine of two migrations to Europe.[1] The culture in Europe today is from the second migration while the DNA of Europeans today is from the first migration. That is, the DNA of the second migration has disappeared even though the culture of that migration has remained. I’m repeating that post here, for those interested.
As explained in Earliest European Farmers Left Little Genetic Mark On Modern Europe, the first settlers in Europe are believed to have been Paleolithic hunter-gatherers who arrived about 40,000 years ago. About 7,500 years ago people migrated to Europe and brought farming to that area. The question thus arises, are modern Europeans descended from the hunter-gatherers, the farmers, or both?
DNA was obtained from skeletons of early farmers, and the DNA contained “genetic signatures that are extremely rare in modern European populations. Based on this discovery, the researchers conclude that early farmers did not leave much of a genetic mark on modern European populations.” In fact, ‘”Our paper suggests that there is a good possibility that the contribution of early farmers could be close to zero,” said Science author Peter Forster from the University of Cambridge in Cambridge, UK.’
The situation given in the Science article is that of two migrations to an area, and the DNA of the later migration not occurring in the people presently living in that area. Since Europe, today, is an agricultural society, the early farmers in the later migration had a significant impact on the culture of Europe, even though they left basically no lasting genetic evidence of their existence. “It’s interesting that a potentially minor migration of people into Central Europe had such a huge cultural impact,” said Forster.”
This is an interesting parallel with the Book of Mormon. Science tells us of early migrations to the Americas from Asia via the Bering Strait. The Book of Mormon tells of a later migration (the Lehites) from the Mediterranean area. However, DNA studies of modern Native Americans show that the Native Americans who were studied have no DNA markers from the Mediterranean area. Apologists for the Book of Mormon have explained that DNA markers from a group of people could die out and thus not be found in modern people (see, for example, Addressing Questions). However, their comments seemed like rationalizations since they could not offer examples from science of DNA markers “dieing out”. We now have from science, as explained in the article from Science magazine, a knowledge of two migrations to Europe and a knowledge that the second migration had a great influence in the culture of Europe but the DNA from this later migration does not occur among modern people currently living in Europe. That is, the DNA markers from the second migration have “died” out. This does not “prove” the Book of Mormon to be true. It is merely a parallel between science and the Book of Mormon. One importance to Latter-day Saints of this parallel is an understanding that the DNA of the American Indians is not necessarily a complete map of the migrations to the Americas.
[1] http://convergencesciencereligion.org/2008/05/parallel-migrations-to-americas-part-6.html
21 Sep 2009 @ 23:10 | Permalink