<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: DNA, Lamanites and Book of Mormon</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2004/07/30/dna-lamanites-and-book-of-mormon/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2004/07/30/dna-lamanites-and-book-of-mormon/</link>
	<description>Thought-provoking commentary on life, politics, religion and social issues.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 05:27:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=abc</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2004/07/30/dna-lamanites-and-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-123825</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 06:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=29#comment-123825</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;DNA evidence is pretty conclusive that the persons tested came from Asia tens of thousands of years ago. Yet the Book of Mormon states that Lehi and his family came from the mid east to the Americas about 2600 years ago. One explanation for this is that the DNA of the Lehites has disappeared. I posted in my blog about a year and a half ago an example that was published in Science magazine of two migrations to Europe.[1] The culture in Europe today is from the second migration while the DNA of Europeans today is from the first migration. That is, the DNA of the second migration has disappeared even though the culture of that migration has remained. I&#039;m repeating that post here, for those interested.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As explained in Earliest European Farmers Left Little Genetic Mark On Modern Europe, the first settlers in Europe are believed to have been Paleolithic hunter-gatherers who arrived about 40,000 years ago. About 7,500 years ago people migrated to Europe and brought farming to that area. The question thus arises, are modern Europeans descended from the hunter-gatherers, the farmers, or both?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;DNA was obtained from skeletons of early farmers, and the DNA contained &quot;genetic signatures that are extremely rare in modern European populations. Based on this discovery, the researchers conclude that early farmers did not leave much of a genetic mark on modern European populations.&quot; In fact, &#039;&quot;Our paper suggests that there is a good possibility that the contribution of early farmers could be close to zero,&quot; said Science author Peter Forster from the University of Cambridge in Cambridge, UK.&#039;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The situation given in the Science article is that of two migrations to an area, and the DNA of the later migration not occurring in the people presently living in that area. Since Europe, today, is an agricultural society, the early farmers in the later migration had a significant impact on the culture of Europe, even though they left basically no lasting genetic evidence of their existence. &quot;It&#039;s interesting that a potentially minor migration of people into Central Europe had such a huge cultural impact,&quot; said Forster.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This is an interesting parallel with the Book of Mormon. Science tells us of early migrations to the Americas from Asia via the Bering Strait. The Book of Mormon tells of a later migration (the Lehites) from the Mediterranean area. However, DNA studies of modern Native Americans show that the Native Americans who were studied have no DNA markers from the Mediterranean area. Apologists for the Book of Mormon have explained that DNA markers from a group of people could die out and thus not be found in modern people (see, for example, Addressing Questions). However, their comments seemed like rationalizations since they could not offer examples from science of DNA markers &quot;dieing out&quot;. We now have from science, as explained in the article from Science magazine, a knowledge of two migrations to Europe and a knowledge that the second migration had a great influence in the culture of Europe but the DNA from this later migration does not occur among modern people currently living in Europe. That is, the DNA markers from the second migration have &quot;died&quot; out. This does not &quot;prove&quot; the Book of Mormon to be true. It is merely a parallel between science and the Book of Mormon. One importance to Latter-day Saints of this parallel is an understanding that the DNA of the American Indians is not necessarily a complete map of the migrations to the Americas.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;[1] http://convergencesciencereligion.org/2008/05/parallel-migrations-to-americas-part-6.html&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DNA evidence is pretty conclusive that the persons tested came from Asia tens of thousands of years ago. Yet the Book of Mormon states that Lehi and his family came from the mid east to the Americas about 2600 years ago. One explanation for this is that the DNA of the Lehites has disappeared. I posted in my blog about a year and a half ago an example that was published in Science magazine of two migrations to Europe.[1] The culture in Europe today is from the second migration while the DNA of Europeans today is from the first migration. That is, the DNA of the second migration has disappeared even though the culture of that migration has remained. I&#8217;m repeating that post here, for those interested.</p>
<p>As explained in Earliest European Farmers Left Little Genetic Mark On Modern Europe, the first settlers in Europe are believed to have been Paleolithic hunter-gatherers who arrived about 40,000 years ago. About 7,500 years ago people migrated to Europe and brought farming to that area. The question thus arises, are modern Europeans descended from the hunter-gatherers, the farmers, or both?</p>
<p>DNA was obtained from skeletons of early farmers, and the DNA contained &#8220;genetic signatures that are extremely rare in modern European populations. Based on this discovery, the researchers conclude that early farmers did not leave much of a genetic mark on modern European populations.&#8221; In fact, &#8216;&#8221;Our paper suggests that there is a good possibility that the contribution of early farmers could be close to zero,&#8221; said Science author Peter Forster from the University of Cambridge in Cambridge, UK.&#8217;</p>
<p>The situation given in the Science article is that of two migrations to an area, and the DNA of the later migration not occurring in the people presently living in that area. Since Europe, today, is an agricultural society, the early farmers in the later migration had a significant impact on the culture of Europe, even though they left basically no lasting genetic evidence of their existence. &#8220;It&#8217;s interesting that a potentially minor migration of people into Central Europe had such a huge cultural impact,&#8221; said Forster.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is an interesting parallel with the Book of Mormon. Science tells us of early migrations to the Americas from Asia via the Bering Strait. The Book of Mormon tells of a later migration (the Lehites) from the Mediterranean area. However, DNA studies of modern Native Americans show that the Native Americans who were studied have no DNA markers from the Mediterranean area. Apologists for the Book of Mormon have explained that DNA markers from a group of people could die out and thus not be found in modern people (see, for example, Addressing Questions). However, their comments seemed like rationalizations since they could not offer examples from science of DNA markers &#8220;dieing out&#8221;. We now have from science, as explained in the article from Science magazine, a knowledge of two migrations to Europe and a knowledge that the second migration had a great influence in the culture of Europe but the DNA from this later migration does not occur among modern people currently living in Europe. That is, the DNA markers from the second migration have &#8220;died&#8221; out. This does not &#8220;prove&#8221; the Book of Mormon to be true. It is merely a parallel between science and the Book of Mormon. One importance to Latter-day Saints of this parallel is an understanding that the DNA of the American Indians is not necessarily a complete map of the migrations to the Americas.</p>
<p>[1] <a href="http://convergencesciencereligion.org/2008/05/parallel-migrations-to-americas-part-6.html">http://convergencesciencereligion.org/2008/05/parallel-migrations-to-americas-part-6.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: terry pike</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2004/07/30/dna-lamanites-and-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-121504</link>
		<dc:creator>terry pike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=29#comment-121504</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The posts about DNA cover a wide field but what about the other end of life, the spritual form of life that science rejects outright because it is not subject to the rules of life as science defines them, not so long ago the universal doctrine of science that no life can exist without sunlight was stood on its head when Dr Ballard who discovered the Titanic also discovered life is suprisingly abundant in the cold dark depths of the ocean. When scientists had recovered from there disbelief they investigated the proof Dr Ballard presented them with and came to the realisation that life be it in much less evolved forms than man, doe&#039;s indeed live in the darkness quite indipendent of sunlight because it converts chemical energy pouring out from the sea bed at incredably high temperatures into nourishment for a food chain that sustains a great variety of lower life forms. It is this astonishing finding that has intensified the search for life elsewhere in the universe by some of the worlds best scientists who now reason that as it happens on earth it can happen elsewhere.
The point of my post is that now that science has outgrown its own version of the flat earth doctrine perhaps it will begin to concider that the highest form of biological life on earth has always been dependent on the light of the sun, and if life has evolved elsewhere because the conditions are comparable with those in which lower life forms can flourish on earth then by this truth life elsewhere will have to be biologicly speaking of the same primative forms it has taken on earth. The conclusion is that life elsewhere that has &#039;evolved&#039; beyond mans biological light dependent state can only be of a spiritual perspective, just as we are given a fleeting look at in the scriptural refferences to angels ect.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Mr Smith did not as far as I know make any direct refferences to biological forms of life elsewhere, but somewhere he did refer to the planet Kolob...any thoughts on this?
terry&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The posts about DNA cover a wide field but what about the other end of life, the spritual form of life that science rejects outright because it is not subject to the rules of life as science defines them, not so long ago the universal doctrine of science that no life can exist without sunlight was stood on its head when Dr Ballard who discovered the Titanic also discovered life is suprisingly abundant in the cold dark depths of the ocean. When scientists had recovered from there disbelief they investigated the proof Dr Ballard presented them with and came to the realisation that life be it in much less evolved forms than man, doe&#8217;s indeed live in the darkness quite indipendent of sunlight because it converts chemical energy pouring out from the sea bed at incredably high temperatures into nourishment for a food chain that sustains a great variety of lower life forms. It is this astonishing finding that has intensified the search for life elsewhere in the universe by some of the worlds best scientists who now reason that as it happens on earth it can happen elsewhere.<br />
The point of my post is that now that science has outgrown its own version of the flat earth doctrine perhaps it will begin to concider that the highest form of biological life on earth has always been dependent on the light of the sun, and if life has evolved elsewhere because the conditions are comparable with those in which lower life forms can flourish on earth then by this truth life elsewhere will have to be biologicly speaking of the same primative forms it has taken on earth. The conclusion is that life elsewhere that has &#8216;evolved&#8217; beyond mans biological light dependent state can only be of a spiritual perspective, just as we are given a fleeting look at in the scriptural refferences to angels ect.</p>
<p>Mr Smith did not as far as I know make any direct refferences to biological forms of life elsewhere, but somewhere he did refer to the planet Kolob&#8230;any thoughts on this?<br />
terry</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: brk</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2004/07/30/dna-lamanites-and-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-33891</link>
		<dc:creator>brk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2007 13:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=29#comment-33891</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;My two cents worth...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;For better or worse, we all make decisions about who we are going to marry and what religion we are going to follow.  Once those decisions are made, one should not look back with regret.  The happiness of our families is at stake.  I believe that God is forgiving.  If we happen to pick an incorrect religion but live that religion with honor, we will still receive blessings.  At this point, I don&#039;t think that any religion is absolutely true, nor do I think that any religion is completely false.  The Truth is found in bits and pieces from many sources and in many religions.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I now accept the fact that the  BOM is not a literal history.  However, I still believe the BOM is inspired, even if it is not divine.  I think that all of this discussion about DNA has made me a lot less smug and lot more understanding about other religions.  Bottom-line, we should all strive to live honorable lives.  This end goal should be enough.  Whatever happens in the after life, for me, it is what it is, and it will be enough.  Personal actions speak louder and count more than beliefs or creeds.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;brk&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My two cents worth&#8230;</p>
<p>For better or worse, we all make decisions about who we are going to marry and what religion we are going to follow.  Once those decisions are made, one should not look back with regret.  The happiness of our families is at stake.  I believe that God is forgiving.  If we happen to pick an incorrect religion but live that religion with honor, we will still receive blessings.  At this point, I don&#8217;t think that any religion is absolutely true, nor do I think that any religion is completely false.  The Truth is found in bits and pieces from many sources and in many religions.</p>
<p>I now accept the fact that the  BOM is not a literal history.  However, I still believe the BOM is inspired, even if it is not divine.  I think that all of this discussion about DNA has made me a lot less smug and lot more understanding about other religions.  Bottom-line, we should all strive to live honorable lives.  This end goal should be enough.  Whatever happens in the after life, for me, it is what it is, and it will be enough.  Personal actions speak louder and count more than beliefs or creeds.</p>
<p>brk</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JM</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2004/07/30/dna-lamanites-and-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-33494</link>
		<dc:creator>JM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=29#comment-33494</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;This is new. You might want to break it to the FAIR boys that they’ve had it wrong all these years…&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Typical rick... you&#039;re such a Lamanite.  ;-)&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This is new. You might want to break it to the FAIR boys that they’ve had it wrong all these years…&#8221;</p>
<p>Typical rick&#8230; you&#8217;re such a Lamanite.  ;-)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rick</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2004/07/30/dna-lamanites-and-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-33490</link>
		<dc:creator>rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=29#comment-33490</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;To be a Lamanite, is to be lost from the Lords path&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This is new. You might want to break it to the FAIR boys that they&#039;ve had it wrong all these years...&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To be a Lamanite, is to be lost from the Lords path&#8221;</p>
<p>This is new. You might want to break it to the FAIR boys that they&#8217;ve had it wrong all these years&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew Burridge</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2004/07/30/dna-lamanites-and-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-33474</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Burridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 02:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=29#comment-33474</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The overall view of the Book of Mormon is that the Lamanites when they come unto the &quot;law&quot; they become as the Nephites: therefore causing to be no opposition at all. As they exist and commune with each other, they are as if there were no &quot;ites&quot; amongst them!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The Lord don&#039;t give a rats, pardon the pun, of who&#039;s who in the crew; really, He created &quot;casts&quot; so as we as human BEINGS can know that Wrong can only go so far, but Good is eternal and everlasting, and &#039;How high is up? don&#039;t tell me cause I don&#039;t wont to know!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;To be a Lamanite, is to be lost from the Lords path, not a particular blood line that is best left for the tea parties of those who talk with a plum in their mouth, for they, them themselves are Lamanites.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The best way to solve a problem is, don&#039;t talk about it at all, for to do so only adds to the confusion and breeds the same.
The Lord will do his own work in his own time! He said so.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;PS I am looking to speak with a so say &quot;Lamanite&quot; or rather a Native American LDS or other regarding a pacific belief that pre dates 2000 years or so.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My email: &lt;a href=&quot;mailto:andrewjohnburridge@yahoo.com.au&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;andrewjohnburridge@yahoo.com.au&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The overall view of the Book of Mormon is that the Lamanites when they come unto the &#8220;law&#8221; they become as the Nephites: therefore causing to be no opposition at all. As they exist and commune with each other, they are as if there were no &#8220;ites&#8221; amongst them!</p>
<p>The Lord don&#8217;t give a rats, pardon the pun, of who&#8217;s who in the crew; really, He created &#8220;casts&#8221; so as we as human BEINGS can know that Wrong can only go so far, but Good is eternal and everlasting, and &#8216;How high is up? don&#8217;t tell me cause I don&#8217;t wont to know!</p>
<p>To be a Lamanite, is to be lost from the Lords path, not a particular blood line that is best left for the tea parties of those who talk with a plum in their mouth, for they, them themselves are Lamanites.</p>
<p>The best way to solve a problem is, don&#8217;t talk about it at all, for to do so only adds to the confusion and breeds the same.<br />
The Lord will do his own work in his own time! He said so.</p>
<p>PS I am looking to speak with a so say &#8220;Lamanite&#8221; or rather a Native American LDS or other regarding a pacific belief that pre dates 2000 years or so.</p>
<p>My email: <a href="mailto:andrewjohnburridge@yahoo.com.au">andrewjohnburridge@yahoo.com.au</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pew Sitter</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2004/07/30/dna-lamanites-and-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-32619</link>
		<dc:creator>Pew Sitter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=29#comment-32619</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jamie Trwth said: &quot;I don’t believe in carbon dating. Maybe as a church we should not believe in DNA testing.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Are you suggesting the Church restrict it members in what they can and cannot believe? Do you also believe the world is flat? That was religious teachings in the not too distant past.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jamie Trwth said: &#8220;I don’t believe in carbon dating. Maybe as a church we should not believe in DNA testing.&#8221;</p>
<p>Are you suggesting the Church restrict it members in what they can and cannot believe? Do you also believe the world is flat? That was religious teachings in the not too distant past.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kim Siever</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2004/07/30/dna-lamanites-and-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-32580</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Siever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=29#comment-32580</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I see no reason to not believe in carbon dating or DNA testing.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see no reason to not believe in carbon dating or DNA testing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jamie Trwth</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2004/07/30/dna-lamanites-and-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-32579</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie Trwth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=29#comment-32579</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I will quote Craig Ferguson by saying, &quot;That is only if you believe in DNA testing.&quot; &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t believe in carbon dating. Maybe as a church we should not believe in DNA testing.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will quote Craig Ferguson by saying, &#8220;That is only if you believe in DNA testing.&#8221; </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe in carbon dating. Maybe as a church we should not believe in DNA testing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kim Siever</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2004/07/30/dna-lamanites-and-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-32574</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Siever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=29#comment-32574</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Obviously it’s the introduction to the Book of Mormon that introduces this confusion. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m not sure that it is obvious. Inf act, I would propose that the BOM introduction is a result of the confusion, not a cause of it.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p>Obviously it’s the introduction to the Book of Mormon that introduces this confusion. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that it is obvious. Inf act, I would propose that the BOM introduction is a result of the confusion, not a cause of it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
