What is a Good Elders Quorum President?
If you were witness to the release of an elders quorum president, what criteria would you use to determine whether you thought he was a good elders quorum president? How would you determine if he had done a good job as an elders quorum president?
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who is the “you”? The Bishop? Just the average member? I would think that I would say if it was someone who practiced what they preached. Who gave of their time and talents unselfishly, who set an example to others, someone who the youth looked up to, who showed his support for his leaders. When someone spoke of him as EQP were they speaking about him in a great manner or talking behind his back while rolling their eyes….
Why? are you being released?
3 Jun 2006 @ 18:46 | Permalink
The “you” is anyone who reads the post.
No, I have not been informed of any impending release.
3 Jun 2006 @ 22:28 | Permalink
Everyone will have a different opinion based on their personal perspective, soon good, some less good. Hence, the question, as you posed it, is simply not relevant.
What is relevant is summed up in the following statement by John Wooden.
“Success is peace of mind which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best you are capable of becoming.”
4 Jun 2006 @ 05:21 | Permalink
“Everyone will have a different opinion based on their personal perspective”
Which is why I asked.
4 Jun 2006 @ 05:48 | Permalink
If I had to judge an elders quorum president’s success, I’d boil it down to two questions:
Was the quorum better (more engaged, more involved, more united) because of the former president’s leadership?
Were the members of the quorum (individually, or as a whole) better for having worked with him.
4 Jun 2006 @ 08:27 | Permalink
“Hence, the question, as you posted it, is simply not relevant.”
Consider the entire statement and wisdom of Coach Wooden’s admonishment.
To judge another person’s fulfillment of a Church calling is risky business (bishops exluded as their calling includes the responsibity to judge).
4 Jun 2006 @ 08:40 | Permalink
He’s not asking in order to judge, just to get different perspectives. Roger, I think you are making more out of his query than is necessary.
4 Jun 2006 @ 12:03 | Permalink
If the Elders Quorum President were to stand before Jesus and be told “A job well done”, then I would think he had performed his calling in the manner he should have. An Elder Quorum President is really more than the moving company, the chairman (setup take done chairs) and calling people to work at Stake Projects. A really good EP will love the members of his quorum and know who they are in real live, not just at church. He will have lifted their burdens and helped them. He would be the friend to many. He would follow Christ example in John 13: 12–17.
4 Jun 2006 @ 13:32 | Permalink
The Elder’s Quorum President is pretty much removed from the goings-on of my life. Whenever one is released I figured he must have done fine.
4 Jun 2006 @ 15:41 | Permalink
Well, I would hope that most men in the quorum would know who the EQP was, recall a conversation with him and have no hesitation to approach him should they need help.
I think many EQ’s that don’t work are that way through perception and awkwardness. The EQ member may be perceived to be doing fine, too busy to help, or maybe just a plain jerk – so no one reaches out to him. He becomes lost in YM or Primary or in the very classroom the EQ gathers in. No one knows how to approach him, and so there is little to no communication. Someone who may be talked about in quorum meetings but never talked too…
5 Jun 2006 @ 08:09 | Permalink
I try not to make such judgments and just thank all for their service, especially since our puny works can’t possibly contribute to exaltation anyway. It’s service we do out of love for the Lord and our fellow humans, and it should be received in that sprit.
5 Jun 2006 @ 08:36 | Permalink
If I offended anyone by my comments, please accept my apology. “Which is why I asked?” And, “…you are making more out of his query than is necessary.”
I was honestly offering my perspective which is based on past experience, but I obviously “missed the boat” and possibly offenced. Sorry.
5 Jun 2006 @ 17:37 | Permalink
No, I was not offended, nor was Kim. I am just saying that he wasn’t asking the question in order to judge, just to get persepctives. It seemed to me you thought he was judging or wanting to judge them. He just wants to get some ideas on what other’s opinions are on it, that’s all. And he’s getting them. It’s interesting seeing the different thoughts on what makes a successful EQP.
5 Jun 2006 @ 18:23 | Permalink
Did he follow the scriptures?
Did he follow the handbook?
Did he truly preside or just nag about home teaching?
Did he understand the true concept of presidency?
Was he a lackey for the Bishop or Stake President, or did he know when to ignore them and do what he was suppose to do?
Did he need to “run everything by the bishop” before he could make a decision?
Did he minister to his quorum members?
Did he regularly hold priesthood interviews with his quorum members?
Did he focus on teaching correct principles and letting quorum members govern themselves?
Did he require quorum members to be self accountable, or did he chase them down to collect his HT stats?
Was he a one man moving company, or did he teach the principles of self reliance and have the strength to tell a quorum member to go through their home teacher for moving concers or perhaps hire a moving company?
There are many more… but I think you get the idea.
13 Jun 2006 @ 14:20 | Permalink
Great thoughts, JM, I would be interested in elaboration on one: did he truly preside or just nag about home teaching.
13 Jun 2006 @ 15:00 | Permalink
Kim,
I’m sure you already know the following, but I like to type so…
The duty to watch over the church always, be with, and strengthen them is an Aaronic priesthood duty, and as such falls under the direction of the presiding priest in the ward, the Bishop.
In the modern church, we have chosen to create a program that helps teach and follow through on this principle. This program is Home Teaching. It isn’t a perfect program, but it’s all we have at the moment.
As an Aaronic priesthood duty, the focus on the home teaching program should be in the aaronic priesthood quorums of the teacher and priest. By the time priesthood holders are made Elders, they should already have learned the principles of watching over, being with, and strengthening. The home teaching program should not be the main focus of the melchezidek priesthood quorums.
Because as a church in general we fail to teach this principle to the arronic priesthood holders, the EQ and HPG inherit a problem that should never be theirs to begin with. In this scenario, and EQP has three courses of action.
1) Do nothing
2) Focus on the aaronic priesthood duty of HT.
3) Treat the elders as adults, teach them correct principles, and let them govern themselves.
My experience has been that every other EQP largely focuses on option 2, and when they tire of it because they see no results, they go for option 1. I believe they choose option 2 because this is the false direction that they are receiving from their bishops and stake presidents who are ignoring teaching the principle to the aaronic priesthood quorums.
If an EQP truly presides in his quorum, he will realize that he holds the keys, not the bishop, not the stake president. They can council him, but really, the EQP should listen to the council from his counselors first.
If the EQP truly presides, he will focus all of his efforts on teaching melchezidek priesthood principles of the gospel, such as personal worthyness, honoring the priesthood, returning and reporting, being a patriarch in his own family, etc… as he helps his quorum bretheren become truly converted to these gospel principles, they will choose to govern themselves and the following will just happen:
1) They will watch over, be with, and strengthen all members of the ward, paying special attention to those they are assigned to home teach.
2) They will be excellent role models for the teachers and priests in the ward, teaching them good home teaching habits and helping them understand the true meaning of the program and principles.
3) They will want their families to have regular visits from priesthood holders in the ward to help and assist them as the patriarch in the home. They will make home teaching happen in their own home.
4) They will return and report on their own, not needing constant reminders.
On the other hand, the EQP can continue to nag and pester to get in his stats so he looks good to the B or the SP. The quorum will continue to ignore him and nothing will ever change.
It all boils down to agency. Do we respect the agency of our quorum members enough to let them fail? Do we have enough confidence to say “Bretheren, it is your responsibility to return and report! You will not receive another phone call from us for your HT stats” and then follow up in one-on-one home teaching interviews with each quorum member?
It’s not a quick fix, but it is the only fix that works, and let me tell you, when it does work, amazing things happen and you will never go back to the “wrong way” of directing home teaching in your quorum.
Anyway, thats my $0.02.
13 Jun 2006 @ 22:22 | Permalink
“then follow up in one-on-one home teaching interviews with each quorum member?”
I’d love it to work that way. Unfortunately, in our current ward, the brethren do not show up to their interviews.
13 Jun 2006 @ 23:49 | Permalink
I currently am the EQP for my ward. We have about 400 members on our rolls and only 40 or so show up on Sunday. There is only about 5 active Melchizdek that come every Sunday. Even my counsilors are not that active. And yes unfortunately we do focus on HT alot more than we should. But I don’t chase anyone down for their HT stats. I just ask them to please return and report. If they fail to do so then that is their agency in action.
30 Jan 2007 @ 04:17 | Permalink
I am grateful for JM’s response to the question. I have been recently called as my Ward’s EQP and was handed a dismal HT record (32% last month) and have had the last 3 EQPs go pretty much inactive. I have good counselors, but only 3 to 4 Priesthood members show up for Quorum every Sunday.
Last night we had our stake conference adult meeting and had our area president in attendance, and he pointed out to me something I did not realize I was doing. Instead of teaching the principle, I was trying to change the EQ’s behavior with behavior, which never works. The “nagging” for HT numbers will never be affective, because it never tells the brethren why HT is necessary and how they will benefit. It’s the same as telling a child he needs to do something “because I said so”. I had already resolved to do the same as recommended above (have them return and report on their own) but did not know why until he said those words last night.
Now I know that instead of asking them to do their HT every time I’m on the stand in priesthood opening exercises, I need to ask them if they have loved their neighbor yet this month and have done their part of “watching over the church”. I know our numbers will be horrible for a while, but if I hold them accountable in PPIs and report HTs who are not fulfilling their duty to the bishop, this will turn around eventually.
I have the full support of my bishop, who has asked me to give him a report of all HTs who have not done their HT in the last 3 months. He has told me he will use this information during temple rec interviews and they will not receive a recommend until they have fulfilled their priesthood duties (a question in the temple rec interview). I hope when I am eventually released I will be thought of as a good EQ president, but I only care what the Lord thinks of how I served him. What the World or the Ward thinks is irrelevant.
16 Sep 2007 @ 06:53 | Permalink
Carl,
Don’t give your bishop anything. He can pull a report any time he wants from the computer. It’s just more busy work for you. And you’ve got enough on your plate.
In opening exercises, don’t ask a question that you can’t get an answer to. Save it for your interviews where you can actually discuss the answer.
If you want to do something in your opening exercises, just report on the positive. i.e. “Brethren, I’ve received some encouraging reports from families in the ward about their home teachers. I just want you to know that your efforts don’t go un-noticed and that you are appreciated for all you do”. Of course, it would help if it were true. Look for positive things and report those.
Give specific examples in private in interviews. Never chastize publicly. Save it for interviews.
If, like Kim was mentioning, the elders in your quorum never show up, who cares? It’s not your fault. It just signals that you need to focus on the doctrine of return and report in your quorum lessons.
Good luck!
17 Sep 2007 @ 04:24 | Permalink
That’s what secretaries are for. The bishop doesn’t run reports himself; he gets his clerk to do it. You should use your secretary for the same thing.
Use your quorum meeting for this, if you need to do it publicly at all. The high priests don’t need to know about your efforts to encourage the brethren. Be sure to use PPIs to follow through and use specific examples.
IMO, that goes against Elder Ballard’s talk from October 2006 conference. This will not result in better home teaching and is not a long-term solution. It will create more resentment and uses guilt for motivation. In addition, it focuses too much on performance and the programme and not enough on the principle behind the programme.
The bishop should be trying to teach the brethren how to love on another and how to develop charity instead of trying to use blackmail to get them to home teach. Doing the former will also have the benefit of increasing service generally, improving temple attendance, strengthening sharing the gospel, and so forth.
17 Sep 2007 @ 08:18 | Permalink
JM said: Did he truly preside or just nag about home teaching?
Presiding by sitting on a chair in the front each sunday? Or by doing his own home work and thus being an example saying “follow me”. As for nagging about home teaching. A good leader should encourage, not nag, but those who don’t like to be reminded of their home teaching duty are mostly those who don’t do it themselves. So they prefer silence about the issue.
John
29 Dec 2007 @ 16:28 | Permalink
John,
What would you consider to be “encouraging”.
29 Dec 2007 @ 18:08 | Permalink
Last Sunday I was extended the call to be the EQP. I have enjoyed what you all have said and makes a lot of sense. I plan to waery the lord about which direction the lord would have me take. I plan to weary the lord in prayer as I continue to sanctify my life in accordance with gospel principles and doctrines. This is an exciting opportunity to love and serve. We are not perfect men and we all fall short but I feel if I can let my quorum members feel I love them the work can move forward. Love, love and more love. I suspect there will be more growth in my life over the next few years than any other in the quorum.
1 Jan 2008 @ 17:59 | Permalink
If you can sincerely say you have a genuine love for your quorum members, I believe you will be a successful president.
1 Jan 2008 @ 19:59 | Permalink
I thank you all for you responses and opinions. This is a question I have often wondered about, particuularly the last few weeks. Last Sunday I was released as a counselor in the Bishopric and will be set apart as the new Elders Quorum President this week. We currently have two elders quorums and they will be combined into one. The Stake President was very plain about my duties and responsibilities my stewardship and the keys I would hold. I may have a different perspective than most of you as I have sat in the meetings where we discussed the ward members, home teaching, temple attendance, church attendance, callings and releases and many other concerns. I will give my Bishop whatever reports might help and I will listen to the advice and council both the Bishop and Stake President will offer. We all the have the same goal in mind: the salvation of souls. I agree one cannot nag about home teaching or any other principle but rather, like the Prophet Joseph stated, teach them correct pricniples and let them govern themselves. The gospel is about free agency and personal accountability. My good works cannot save someone else, neither can my sins bring condemnation to another. I think the greatest things I can do that will have an impact on the lives of quorm menbers are to TEACH the gosel, TESTIFY of its truthfulness and LIVE its principles. All members need to be taught, they need to be loved and they need to be held accountable for the stewardship they have as fathers, and priesthoold holders.
6 Jun 2008 @ 10:02 | Permalink
I’d love to hear from Carl or William to see how things are going.
9 Jun 2008 @ 06:41 | Permalink
I have enjoyed the many comments. I have been EQP for almost 2 years and our HT has been in the 15% range the whole time. Pathetic really. I need to apply the principle of returning and reporting. That would save the presidency a lot of time. I’ve read the quote from Joseph Smith about teaching the principle and that will lead to behavior, but truth is, that’s what I did and quorum members still complained about hearing about HT even when I never mentioned the word. Truth is, all you can do is your best. And even when you do, things won’t be perfect, and not everyone will like you. Just love the brethren, talk with them each individual, hold them accountable when they don’t do their duty, and rely on the Lord.
27 Jun 2008 @ 08:39 | Permalink
Ben,
Don’t teach them about home teaching. Teach them their priesthood responsibility. Teach them D&C 20:42,53 and once they become converted to that principle, home teaching will come naturally.
27 Jun 2008 @ 08:49 | Permalink
Well, I’ve now been EQP for 9 months and have seen some gradual improvements. Our HT has improved from 20% to 25% to 55% to 60%. We’re also seeing a lot better attendance and participation in EQ lessons on Sunday. Here are a couple of things I have done (but I’m not sure if any one has caused the improvements:
Called a better EQ Instructor – The one that is teaching now is more humble and there is a lot more constructive discussion during the lessons. The new instructor only teaches the “Presidents of the Church” lessons (2nd and 3rd Sundays) while one of my counselors teach the First Presidency’s message on the First Sunday and I teach the Fourth Sunday. As I mentioned before, attendance and participation is up.
Regular PPIs with Home Teachers – We interviewed the “problem” HTs first and discovered a lot of issues with companionships, like they were not available to go out at the same time or were incompatible. We have since rearranged some routes with some success. The regular PPIs are also helping hold these brethren accountable and they know they will need to answer to the EQP as to why they are not getting their HT done. I am extremely careful (and I have instructed my counselors as well) not to judge the HT, but rather we encourage and exhort them to do better.
We were having an interesting discussion in an EQ lesson a couple of months ago regarding what we have to do to be considered a “good” priesthood holder. We are (after all) not perfect, so when do we know when we have done enough? My answer to my Quorum was that when we have done our very best, and have put our priesthood responsibilities in their proper priority (Relationship with God, Family, Priesthood, and Self), then we will be told “well done, though good and faithful servant” and will be given stewardship over more of our Father’s kingdom. I hold that same philosophy true for my HTs. If they have done all that they can to make contact with their assigned families, then they have done enough. Only God and they know what that “enough” is, and they will be held accountable for it. As has been stated earlier in this thread, my responsibility as EQP is to “encourage and exhort”, and not nag or babysit them. If that is what I have to do to get them to do their duty as Priesthood Holders, then they (my Quorum) do not understand correct principles and I have failed them. However, if I attempt to teach the the correct principles and they do not folow them, then I leave that up to Heavenly Father to guide and direct their path until they learn the hard way.
28 Jun 2008 @ 18:51 | Permalink
I have been an EQP for the past 4 years. I anticipate a release shortly. I also have enjoyed all of your commments. Example is an important thing. When I have done my best to have a 100% Hometeaching, and when my fellow elders know that I will following up with their numbers it makes a difference. A previous presidency did alot of pencil whipping. With out accountability nothing got done.
23 Aug 2008 @ 00:03 | Permalink
I have been EQP for about 1 year. with about 12 ht companionships and 40 families to visit, we average about 70% ht. Last april we had 100% ht. a couple of other months we have averaged 98%. to all the EQP, dont forget that we have stewardship over all the families assigned to our qourum. You cannot say that you are making your quorum accountable by asking them to do hometeaching once. Its a constant followup through the month. And its not just a phone reminder. I would personally visit hometeachers that are lazy and offer to help. some of you call this nagging. I call this doing my best so that I wont be accountable. the best formula to get higher HT visit is by personal visit with each home teacher.
27 Aug 2008 @ 08:58 | Permalink
I think the best hometeacher is one who actually CARES and doesn’t treat you like an assignment or something to mark off his to do list. Stats don’t impress me.
27 Aug 2008 @ 09:37 | Permalink
“the best formula to get higher HT visit is by personal visit with each home teacher.”
…and if you value home teaching stats over friendships, by all means annoy every single one of these people this way.
27 Aug 2008 @ 09:38 | Permalink
That’s a short term solution, Ranik. That solution does nothing to teach the brethren the principles found in D&C 20 and puts way too much focus on performance. It does nothing to teach them the importance of developing good friendships and learning to love to serve others.
I’d love to have you come try your tactics here in Lethbridge and see what happens.
27 Aug 2008 @ 10:16 | Permalink
When I was first called to be EQP, the 4 advice that the stake president gave me in relation to building brotherhood was:
and thats what I have exactly beeen doing. outcome in terms of friendship and brotherhood has been remarkable. When you build up that friendship and trust whith the EQ brethren, your PPIs or visits will never annoy them. I have seen brethren that never cared about hometeaching actually doing stuff for their HT families. Trust me sometimes you have to do extra work to bring these lazy hometeachers to repentance.
I totally agree with gary beach about: “With out accountability nothing got done” Question is are we as EQP doing enough to make the EQ brethren accountable. or what could we have done more?
27 Aug 2008 @ 13:21 | Permalink
Nowhere in your list does it say “follow up constantly through the month”. Even so, your first comment seems to place a lot of focus on HT. Had you said all you do is the four things in your second comment, you’d probably have received different responses here.
27 Aug 2008 @ 14:14 | Permalink
well with a few I have done constant followups during the month. These are the ones that have taken HT lightly. And these are the ones that sometimes have trouble living the gospel. But I dont just visit or call and talk about HT report. Most of the time its a casual visit either I am dropping a loaf of bread or fruits from my tree or to borrow something. I have seen as I serve them, they automatically start doing good things in the EQ.
In answer to the original question…
I would say that my EQ president has done well if he has served my family and helped me to grow closer to gospel.
27 Aug 2008 @ 14:56 | Permalink
“Trust me sometimes you have to do extra work to bring these lazy hometeachers to repentance.”
…like assigning them to an easier target family perhaps.
I may be reading it wrong, but it looks here like all the responsibility for the HT numbers is being put on the teachers and not the students.
I know for a fact that our HT has horrible numbers and a) is not lazy and b) is not having problems living the gospel. We are unavailable most of the time either by choice or by our high level of activity in other pursuits.
I’d hate to think that this individual would have an EQP breathing down his neck about his numbers.
27 Aug 2008 @ 15:59 | Permalink
rick I dont understand this
“I may be reading it wrong, but it looks here like all the responsibility for the HT numbers is being put on the teachers and not the students.” whom are you refering to as students and teachers?
I disagree about we being unavailble most of the tiem…. Comeon we got 30 days to visit atleast 3 families. some of us dont even make a single phone call. or dont even approach their ht families at church. How can you not make a single phone call? maybe lazy was a bad choice of word but the importance of visiting families is given a low priority here.
This is for all those who hate stats….
“What gets measured gets done”. Numbers, goals and stats are everywhere. At work, home , mission, church, temples even Christ fasted for 3 days. You cannot name one place where we dont deal with numbers. You will NEVER EVER succeed in life unless you aim high.
For all those EQP who think that EQP can only teach the principal and let the HT be accountable in my opinion are not doing enough. You gotta start doing work than just having faith. You will never reactivate a less active family untill someone starts fellowshipping them. I had a few stubbon hometeachers that will not even make a phone call. they even didnt remember who their home teaching families were. That was just devastating. Start doing services for these families and you’ll see a change in your EQ.
28 Aug 2008 @ 08:25 | Permalink
For me, it’s not ‘hating stats’ it’s treating stats as more important than the individuals. Stats don’t mean one ‘aims high’ and Christ didn’t treat the people He dealt with as numbers, but as individuals He loved an d served. He didn’t keep track of how many He met with or how often. Fasting for 3 days is not the same as counting a visit as your ‘hometeaching is done for the month’.
My husband has been an Elder’s Quorum President for a number of years, and he has learned a good many things in that time. First, you cannot take over someone’s choice, and you cannot MAKE people become converted to hometeaching. Service is the catchword for him and in his quorum. Love, not numbers.
28 Aug 2008 @ 11:45 | Permalink
No argument there.
The problem, however, is what gets measured is whether a visit was made only. There is no measurement for service. No measurement for the family’s spiritual welfare. There is no measurement for how well the home teachers are helping the families meet their personal goals. There is no measurement for how well a companionship gets along. And so forth.
Was his goal to fast for three days?
28 Aug 2008 @ 11:55 | Permalink
I dont know if Christ decided to fast for 3 days or not before he actually did it. Its a number thats given in scriptures. Pres Hinckley wanted 100 temples by end of 2002. Wasnt that a goal? Doesnt missionaries have goals? doesnt your family have church related goals? I have a goal of visiting temples 2x a month. most of us have a goal of reading daily scriptures etc. I am just saying goals and numbers are everywhere. Kim, your second paragraph starting with “the problem…. the solution to that as I have said before is monthly PPI. we will never be able to measure those things unless we personally sit with HT. My EQ has several goals such as temple trip and lunch activity onces every 3 months. We have our presidency meeting weekly and it starts on time and finishes on time. We schedule service projects once a month. the eq presidency has a goal to invite atleast 2 families in our homes for dinner/fhe/activities during the month. We have a goal to visit families every wednesday night. There was a month where we visited all the EQ families and offered help preparing garden etc. These goals are set prayerfully and in doing so builds the brotherhood and trust amongst the brethren. and as a result, we have excellent EQ lessons, HT is high, good turn outs at service projects. Believe it or not we are planning to have food every first sunday in EQ and do our PPIs then.
Unfortunately Mary, there are brethren in the EQ who have no desire to HT and if we just let them choose for themselve, their families will never get visit. I believe to Christ thats a no-no. I have a less active older sister who doesnt want any visit from anyone except from one brother. so hes been her home teacher for some time. but this brother doesnt give HT a priority. My stewardship as EQP is over all families and therefore how can I let her be unvisited? When I meet with bishop, he goes over each family and wants to know their welfare. Is it wrong to have a goal that this month, this sister will be visited at any cost?
28 Aug 2008 @ 13:14 | Permalink
Ranik,
Re: ” Unfortunately Mary, there are brethren in the EQ who have no desire to HT and if we just let them choose for themselve, their families will never get visit”
Yep, I know. But are we supposed to babysit them? Did Jesus Christ do all the work for His apostles?
I am not saying it is wrong, but if you are doing their work for them, how are they being converted to Home teaching? You can’t set goals for other people, only for yourself. If Heavenly Father followed up the way you did, we wouldn’t have to do a single thing for ourselves :)
28 Aug 2008 @ 14:40 | Permalink
Sorry Ranik, perhaps I was unclear.
I, as a potential person to be home-taught, do not make myself available to the home teacher; thereby decreasing the times he can possibly teach me. I’m assuming he is the teacher and I am the student in my example.
This poor, unfortunate individual and his associate must report, yet again, that they did not home teach rick that month. Not through lack of trying or because they are not feeling the spirit but because I make it nearly impossible on a regular basis.
28 Aug 2008 @ 15:37 | Permalink
Really? How do you measure those things through PPIs? How do you measure change in the spirituality of a home teaching family between any six month period during your PPIs? How do you track the quantity and quality of service performed by home teachers to their home teaching families through PPIs? How do you keep monitor the progression of HT families in meeting their personal goals. I know it’s not by using MLS, so I am interested to hear how you measure these things through your PPIs.
28 Aug 2008 @ 16:51 | Permalink
I think this is where we are different. I believe that teaching the brethren about HT and letting them decide for themselves is not enough for me. I dont feel that I have done enough to help them get the blessings of HT or to start HT. This ofcourse I am talking about brethren that make no efforts in making appointments (lazy ones). Not even a phone call to check how the family is doing. My EQ has several brethren that will always visit their families. but I have a few that will not even make a phone call. I beleive I as EQP have the right to call these brethren to repentance just like Christ did to his aposteles many times and just like the Bishop can do to ward members. Sometimes we need to tell them that they are not doing their priesthood duties.
Our discussion so far has been about Hometeachers. Honestly I am more concerned about the Hometeaching families than the Hometeachers. I think we are forgetting that the EQPs stewardship is not only over the hometeachers but over all the families EQ hometeach. To me its important that all EQ families have some one to call when in need. Ask yourselves, is christ concerned about the home teachers or the hometeaching families? the obvious answer is BOTH. And unfortunately many families have no contacts from the ward. They have no one to call when help is needed. Are we as EQP not at all concerned about that.
Kim, I am sure you have been in the church for a while and you very well know that the spirituality of a person cannot be measured by another person. However, in PPI we can know things like: if the family is doing FHE and prayer and scriptures,Is anyone sick etc. I think if a family is doing FHE, family prayer and scriptures this says a lot about the family.
Its funny until now you guys have been telling me that my ways are wrong. why dont you guys tell me what have you been doing in your EQ.
29 Aug 2008 @ 08:20 | Permalink
Ranik
If you read, you will see no one has said you are ‘wrong’ just that they disagree with your methods (babysitting). and I am a girl, not a guy. Or I should say woman, since I am 37 years old. I already told you what Kim does (or some of it), teaching the brethren, encouraging service (and it is working). As I said before, ‘calling to repentance’ is one thing, doing it for them or sitting on them until they do it, is another. Heavenly Father doesn’t work that way. He doesn’t do it for us, He expects US to do it. Jesus Christ is the same. We learn service through example and becoming converted. By telling them over and over to do it, it doesn’t convert them it just tells them ‘well if I do it, he’ll get off my back’. If you want your brethren to learn to be home teachers, convert them, through the spirit and through love and examples.
29 Aug 2008 @ 08:33 | Permalink
Oh and another thing, you haven’t answered Kim’s question about whether your statistics actually measure the love that is created. That’s the issue, stats don’t really work when it comes to true service. Is it a duty or something that is done out of love and service? Jesus Christ didn’t use stats, He didn’t need to. Stats were created as a way to keep track but they should be secondary to the person, not of primary importance. When we put numbers ahead of people we are in real trouble.
29 Aug 2008 @ 08:36 | Permalink
Mary, apologize about the guy thing. stats will never measure the love that is created. And dont get the impression that I do all these for numbers. My presidency sets goals and we do things to achieve that goal. Like all of us have a goal of eternal life and we all do things that move us in that direction. Getting brethren to HT is like being in the mission. There is some amount of relationship of trust required before they’ll follow your counsel. I fellowship the troubles ones myself. do service for them. There is a difference between a EQP who contacts brethren only for stats versus some one who actually serves them.
Another thing we do is that if a family doesnt get visited 2 months in a row, we visit that family or have them over to our home. But this visit is NOT counted as HT. This is part of our perfecting the saints committee. I guess I am more concerned about the welfare of all EQ families.
Kim, does your EQ set goals? what are they if you dont mind me asking?
29 Aug 2008 @ 09:51 | Permalink
:) No worries, I wasn’t offended.
I am sure you don’t feel that way about your families. One thing that Kim also does, is ministry visits with families on a regular basis. He doesn’t count it as home teaching though (not saying you do or would, but others have in the past).
Kim will explain what he does, but I feel that for this area of the world, it is the only real thing possible (at least at this point).
29 Aug 2008 @ 11:12 | Permalink
I agree, but that isn’t recorded or tracked anywhere. And all that shows is a snapshot of spiritual practises. It doesn’t necessarily track improvement.
The point I am making isn’t that we should be tracking these things. The point I am making is that the only reason HT visits are tracked is because it’s the easiest statistic to track. Unfortunately, it doesn’t show anything worthwhile.
We don’t focus on HT. That’s our biggest thing.
About six months into my current term, I noticed a trend. Nearly all of our quorum members were not having personal scripture study. In addition, I noticed some weren’t having companion scripture study or attending the temple regularly, and a few weren’t having personal prayer.
For the last 3 years then, we have been focusing on trying to build improvement in those areas. After all, it’s kind of fruitless to get after someone for not home teaching if he isn’t even saying his prayers.
Every year, we pick a theme. The quorum goals are related to this theme, as well as our firesides and first Sunday lessons.
The first year, the theme was “Becoming better husbands and fathers”, the second year the theme was “Service and quorum unity” and this year it is “Building spiritual experiences”.
We hold monthly PPIs where we ask not only about their home teaching families, but about their own spiritual welfare. We note any areas of concerns, extend commitments to them, and then follow up on the commitments at our next PPI.
Once a month, our secretary sets up visits for us with visit 2–4 families in our quorum.
We organize 4 socials, 2 temple trips and 2 firesides each year.
We called a service coordinator and activity coordinator. We also have 3 solid instructors. The 8 of us meet once a month in a board meeting to discuss areas of focus and improvement.
Regarding home teaching:
I already mentioned we don’t focus on home teaching. We don’t make reminder phone calls. We don’t bring it up in elders quorum. We never phone for reports; we expect the brethren to contact us with their reports.
We allow the brethren to determine what constitutes a HT visit. We discussed D&C 20:42 in a first Sunday lesson, and we expect the brethren to use that as their basis for determining what a HT visit is.
If I get an assignment from the bishop to meet the needs of someone in the quorum, I delegate it to the person’s home teachers. I ask them to report back to me on it.
Any follow up on HT efforts is always done in a formal PPI our secretary sets up, and it always focuses on the families. For example, we never ask the generic, “how’s your home teaching?”
How’s our home teaching? I have no idea. It’s low, but consistent for the stake and consistent for this quorum for the 6 years I have been here.
Did I cover our efforts sufficiently for you?
Well, the presidency sets goals for the quorum as a whole. Our 2008 goals are:
29 Aug 2008 @ 13:03 | Permalink
Kim, I am glad I came to this blog. I have certainly learnt good things. We have never had EQ fireside here. What kind of things have you done in your firesides? I will bring that up in our next pres meeting. I certainly like the idea of service and activity cordinator. You also got excellent themes. I also like how the 8 of you meet once a month. Our stake pres is HUGE on HT and missionary work and so is the bishop and myself. I guess its got a high priority in the stake. and the stake has done really well in those areas compared to previous years. We even have ward mission plans set by bishop. Each family even has a mission plan where they do simple things to share gospel. All of these are reported back to the stake. do you meet with your stake presidency monthly? I meet once a month with the stake pres and bishop and we discuss welfare of each family.
I have felt a greater spirit amongst the EQ brethren as we have served together. I mean we have grown closer to each other. We try to have 1 service project a month and that has helped us a lot. Maybe you should start a new blog on what all the different EQP are doing in their quorums. we certainly can learn from each other.
29 Aug 2008 @ 13:33 | Permalink
In order:
Quarterly.
I also meet with all the other EQPs in the stake quarterly.
29 Aug 2008 @ 13:46 | Permalink
Okay…I haven’t posted in awhile. So I will add my 2 bits. The EQ Pres called our home last night at about 10:00pm, he has never called our home for church related purposes. He was calling to invite us to a ward party that was happening this evening. (Didn’t get a chance to get an invite over)
Now, we didn’t have any intention of going. But, I was out mowing the lawn at the time that 90% of the ward was driving past to go to the St. Camp Kitchen, (most of them on Church Standard Time of course), and not on stopped to say Hello, or see if I might need a hand, or what have you. I should probably add in here that I just had brain surgery one month ago. It just all rubbed me the wrong way I guess.
Make sure you get the call in, just to say that you did when you have to report back. But, when it comes down to helping someone out, or actually saying HI…. NO TIME! (Yes the EQP himself did drive right by)
29 Aug 2008 @ 19:37 | Permalink
Dar,
Sorry to hear that. Does your EQP even know that you live there? Has he ever visited your home? How much does he do for the quorum in terms of fellowshipping? fellowshipping is huge in my EQ.
2 Sep 2008 @ 07:57 | Permalink
“Does your EQP even know that you live there?”
Yup
“Has he ever visited your home?”
Yup
“How much does he do for the quorum in terms of fellowshipping?”
Just about zero.
2 Sep 2008 @ 08:33 | Permalink
As a single person I – and my other single friends, both male and female – often get “forgotten” altogether when it comes to home teaching. I must say, though, that the last few home teachers I have had have been excellent, and because I can’t be visited at home (I live with non-member family members who don’t want church visits for “official reasons”, although my friends do come by), they visit me at church and have been great. Same with my current visiting teachers. However, there have been years when I haven’t seen hide nor hair of either home or visiting teachers. Which kind of astounds me, since I get visited at church and all they have to do is talk to me for two minutes in the hallway. No going out on dark nights, etc. Yet they still can’t seem to get their HT or VT in. Amazing to me….
2 Sep 2008 @ 08:51 | Permalink
SS
I don’t know if being single has anything to do with it here. My husband is EQ president and our home teachers still don’t visit. Actually, one lives a block away and the other lives just over a block. We still don’t see or hear from them.
2 Sep 2008 @ 10:59 | Permalink
Hi Mary. I’m just going by my personal experience. All of the wards I’ve lived in, the married have-a-member-of-the-Priesthood-in-the-house members have always gotten visits from their HT and VT first. Singles last. Maybe it’s because they (mostly) have more in common with the marrieds – who knows? All I know is that, with the exception of my current ward, I have always had to go and ask who my HT/VT are if I needed anything. My single friends have similar experiences.
2 Sep 2008 @ 11:49 | Permalink
SS
Yes, I know you are. Actually our experience here in Lethbridge has been (only in two wards mind you but I have heard the same about other wards) is that home teaching and even visiting teaching is apathetic at best. I find it is more common among young married people (being apathetic) not across the board, mind you, but many of these young people don’t seem committed to their wards at all, or very little, and not very committed to those they have stewardship over. I do see exceptions though.
It has been a long time since I was single, but my experience as a YSA in Vancouver was very good, with home teachers and visiting teachers.
I can tell you however, that I have often visit taught single sisters and I enjoy visiting them as much (hey sometimes more!) as married sisters. But then I don’t judge them by whether they are married or not, maybe others do.
2 Sep 2008 @ 13:37 | Permalink
I like that way HT is structured in my ward. Any single sister is home taught by the high priest and they are assigned to brethren who ALWAYS do their home teaching. We even go and do yard work for them when needed. I have monthly PPI with the bishop and one of the stake presidency and we go over each family that my quorum hometeaches and I have to report their welfare. Its actually really nice to see that my leaders are very concerned about each families welfare and needs. To my leaders and myself, ALL FAMILIES MUST BE VISITED. We need to know how they are doing.
Its really sad that some brethren take HT lightly.
When we visit EQ families, we always ask them if they are being home taught. And there have been times when we have asked the families to call their hometeacher to come and home teach them. It is every families right to be home taught. Its a blessing that no one should take away.
A brother/sister can decide whether he or she wants to do their visit/home teaching. They have a choice but they dont have any right to take away the blessing of home teaching from their families.
To any family that doesnt get visited by their HT or VT, pick up the phone and call your RS pres or EQP and inform them that you are not being visited. some times you need to make your leaders accountable. especially the lazy ones.
3 Sep 2008 @ 08:04 | Permalink
Our leaders are well aware of who is not being taught. However you cannot force people to make visits. Really Ranik, It would be good to have you come and try your tactics here in Lethbridge. It would be interesting to see.
3 Sep 2008 @ 08:19 | Permalink
Mary,
I agree that we cannot force people to make visit but we can sure make them accountable. We can sure do things for them that will make them realise the importance of HT/VT. The question is if the leaders have done enough to make home/visit teachers accountable? My bishop is willing to interview brethren who are not trying to HT. Imagine getting interviewed by Christ as to why you are not HT.
I guess if the leaders are aware of whos not being visited and they are doing something about it would be ok. Because heres the thing, leaders such as bishop, EQP RSP have stewardship over their organization and they are responsible of directing fellowshipping to these members.
The one thing that has made a lot of difference in HT in my EQ is when we have started doing service for brethren who didnt HT previously. I had a few really troubled ones who even didnt know what families they were HT and now they are doing great. More importantly, they have become close friends of mine.
How much of service in EQ and RS do you have there in Lethbridge?
3 Sep 2008 @ 09:52 | Permalink
Mary, another thing I forgot was that sometimes the location of the ward may matter. I used to live in a city with lots of young families of which some were going to school. Lots of members move in and out all the time. Husbands & wives have jobs. It seemed like there was a lot happening there in the lives of members and it was tough to schedule appointments. now we live in an area where members have been coming to ward for decades. Nearly every one seem to know everyone else. most of the members have houses and kids go to same school. Most mothers stay home. Its different from the city. Here members seems to have time to come to activity etc.
3 Sep 2008 @ 13:10 | Permalink
I know we can make them accountable, but it really doesn’t work here. Honestly. It’s a different culture. Here we have two post secondary institutions, so yes many young marrieds and young families. But we also have many seniors. There is also a culture of ‘family’ where many people ‘go home to mum and dad’ on a regular basis. So there isn’t a lot of loyalty to the local area or ward. Another interesting anecdote, when we first moved here my VT finally made an appt, she knew me, we had chatted, but she didn’t show up. Apparently she became to shy to actual come and visit teach. One of the things that seems apparent among the younger generation seems to be that they don’t know HOW to do service, and that invludes home and visiting teaching. They are not only not committed, they don’t have an idea how to carry it out and resist the education from their leaders. Not having been taught this as youth or children, they are resistant to learning it as adults on their own. Are all like this? No, but many many are.
A increasing problem here (at least with our youth) is that they don’t have the time or inclination to participate in service (even if it is volunteering to earn money for their own programmes). Why is this so? I don’t really know. Do I think they are bad? Not at all. Do I think their parents are? Nope, in no way. I respect their parents and know them to be good people. I have no idea why this is becoming more prevalent. The youth leaders are even despairing of getting them to do service.
If the primary and youth do not learn service, it will be increasingly hard to get them to do it as adults and this is where the root of inacvtivity lies. They are not committed to the Gospel and have week testimonies at best. Right now, my goal is to make sure this doesn’t happen to my own children in the best way I know how.
All I know is, I do my visiting teaching, my husband is a dedicated home teacher, hardworking, knowledgeable and excellent EQ president and our responsibility is to make sure we do our best.
His efforts even to try and get a past family to allow him to visit resulted in ostracism (almost ) from that family. He wasn’t pushy, but they obviously saw it that way!
I had a previous VT companion who didn’t like me phoning her to try and set up a time to go make visits. To this day she is full of animosity towards me and her husband gives me looks that could kill. Yes, seriously. For some reason, the basic duties of HT and VT are not to be ‘enforced’ or even ‘held accountable’ in this city. I do not know why it is. It’s rather sad really. Personally I didn’t care if my comp came or not, I just didn’t want to shut her out of the process. Whatever, I racked my brains to figure out what I could have done, and it seems I was too nice, which perhaps she interpreted as patronising. This is a whole different world than where I grew up.
However there are great VT and HT here and many people I respect and admire.
Oh and as I said previously, my husband diligently fellowships and has ministry visits and PPIs. He just doesn’t count it as HT (unlike others have).
3 Sep 2008 @ 14:57 | Permalink
Mary, what you describe exists everywhere I think. And I agree about what you said about the culture. Its definitely different here compared to other areas I have been to. And I totally agree with you on some young couples dont know how to do service. I had a very active HT. he was the ward mission leader and lived in the same apartment complex as us. But yet he wasnt a consistent home teacher. He was one of the nicest person I ever met. He has never said no when asked for help. But yet I never understood why he wont stop by our apartment to HT.
4 Sep 2008 @ 08:00 | Permalink
sorry that would be ‘weak testimonies’.
Yes, it is becoming more common everywhere. I think when it comes to home and visiting teaching it comes down to having a testimony of it. If you have one, you will do it (specifically of doing home and visiting teaching) if not, you won’t see the need. So helpiing members gain a testimony is more the key.
Perhaps it is our busier, more seperate lifestyles? People socialised more, years ago, now we are all busy with our lives and struggle to find time to associate with friends and neighbours. It’s a problem of society, I believe.
4 Sep 2008 @ 08:24 | Permalink
“People socialised more, years ago,”
I think people were more social in person years ago. Primarily because they didn’t have access to the remote ability to be social that we currently have.
Phone, text, online chat, BBS … the list goes on and on. Many of the churches standard operating practices are still very much as they would have been in the fifties. It is not the fifties, perhaps they should adapt.
HT via Second Life(tm)? Don’t rule it out…
4 Sep 2008 @ 10:16 | Permalink
I actually know someone who did “missionary work” through Second Life.
“Hey good shot! You really nailed that guy. Cool splatter. Hey wanna talk to the missionaries?”
Or something like that. :)
4 Sep 2008 @ 10:19 | Permalink
If that was the pitch he gave in-game, I wouldn’t expect a whole lot of converts… lol
4 Sep 2008 @ 10:23 | Permalink
what do you mean “Second Life”? I didnt get it.
4 Sep 2008 @ 11:31 | Permalink
Rick, this is what I meant. On a more personal basis, one on one., Just chatting with your neighbour or having friends over (more often, I mean. It still does happen of course, just not to the same degree). More personal interaction.
4 Sep 2008 @ 11:44 | Permalink
Second Life is both a Multi-User Online Social Networking utility and a slang for being online in general.
4 Sep 2008 @ 12:17 | Permalink
What an interesting question…
One simple act that an EQ president does could determine whether he was successful or not. One family returned to activation could be the thing that makes his presidency successful.
16 Dec 2009 @ 09:05 | Permalink
I think that every person called has talents that are needed for the time they are in that calling. I was released from Elders Quorum last year. I was able to see a couple activated. One service project we did helped a brother become temple worthy. Many things transpired which were positive experiences. Service projects helped memebers serve. My time is gone but the new president is doing different things that are reaching other bretheren that I was not able to reach.I feel people are placed in callings for different reasons. I grew alot from my experience as a EQP. I feel I am a better member of the church from that experience as well as a better husband and father. I dont want this to sound like a notch on my belt by saying these things. We are placed in different callings to provide growth to the Quorums and to ourselves. I feel that I had a successful time as a President. But this determiniation has to come from the individual not from someone looking in from the outside.
17 Dec 2009 @ 10:23 | Permalink
If an EQP is focusing on the 3 fold mission of the church–I mean the 4 fold now–and has a deep concern for the well-being of the quorum members, he is doing a-okay.
7 Jan 2010 @ 02:21 | Permalink