Breastfeeding in public
I cam across an article in Babytalk magazine?˘Ç¨Äůyes, the same one that has much of the United States in an uproar, or so the media would have us believe?˘Ç¨Äůand i found a couple of items interesting. I thought I’d post them here.
A [USA] survey . . . published in The Journal of the American Dietetic Association found that 57 percent of those polled said that women should not have a right to breastfeed in public.
Only 10 percent of mothers who work full-time [still breastfeed] their baby at 6 months, according to a 2005 CDC report.
The Journal of the American Dietetic Association’s survey found that only 47 percent of [employers] favored longer maternity leaves, and only 43 percent supported giving women a private room to pump in at work.
A mom should breastfeed her baby for at least the first year of life, as recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics.. . . In 2004 . . . about 70 percent of U.S. mothers reported that they had tried breastfeeding, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). That’s up from 55 percent in 1993. . . . At 6 months, only 36 percent were still nursing. At 12 months, the number dips to 17 percent
Oh, and thanks to fMh for posting the link.
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I served my mission in Honduras, where it was quite common to see women breastfeeding. In fact, the first time I shared the first vision, the woman listening whipped out her mammary to provide an afternoon snack for her child.
I froze. I stared.
My comp wondered what the deal was. Then, he realized I had yet to be numbed and desensitized by Honduran women’s breasts. I saw more boobs in those two years than I care to remember.
I think it’s largely cultural indoctrination. Here, it’s taboo. There, it’s normal. When I see a boob on the front cover of Babytalk magazine, I don’t think “ahh, how cute, a baby feeding”. I think “wow, that’s a big boob”. I don’t want to see that boob. I don’t want to go grocery shopping and have to feel guilty for seeing it. I can’t help the feelings of guilt (perhaps I can blame that on my cultural upbrining?), but regardless, I get those feelings.
I’m against breastfeeding in public.
28 Jul 2006 @ 12:59 | Permalink
When I saw the photo, I thought, “Oh, hey, that baby has the same colour of eyes my baby does.”
28 Jul 2006 @ 13:01 | Permalink
I believe women should be allowed the privillege of breast feeding thier children whenever the child is hungry or needs nursing. It is a natural part of being a baby and there is nothing wrong or sexual about a woman breast feeding.
Anyone who dares to disagree with me on this topic is a prude.
If you are a PRUDE, then show me the passage of scripture where this is bad.
28 Jul 2006 @ 13:15 | Permalink
I’m far from being a prude (I can’t stand prudes), but I do think there should be common decency in this matter.
As long as the mother is being discreet about it, I’m fine with that. When I said “breastfeeding in public”, I meant to say “letting the public see your boob”.
If you cover yourself while breastfeeding your child, then please, go right ahead. But when you’re in a testimony meeting in a Honduran chapel, and let you boob hang out while sitting on the stand awaiting your turn to bear your testimony, then we’ve got a problem.
I have no issue with mothers nursing their children wherever they choose, so long as I don’t have to see any exposed flesh.
28 Jul 2006 @ 13:31 | Permalink
Connor
I have yet to meet a woman who is indiscreet. Common decency in my opinion is respecting a baby’s right to be fed when and where she (or he) needs to be fed. I find men baring big bellies over short shorts, or girls hanging out of halter tops and wearing pants that show too much of the nether region to be offensive.
I rarely show much skin, but I don’t put a blanket over my baby’s head because she doesn’t like it, I don’t like it and I think it is rude.
“I have no issue with mothers nursing their children wherever they choose, so long as I donât have to see any exposed flesh.”
Do you feel the same about teenagers wearing midriff tops or low rise pants? How about men in speedos? Or women skating down the boardwalk on a California beach in bikinis? At least breastfeeding has a purpose. A very vital and important purpose. I think the important thing is to raise our children to know what breasts are for. It is society that has created the taboo, not the reality. We NEED breasts to feed our babies. And yes they can’t be flat (but oh it’s ok to see a man flashing his breasts, because they aren’t a sexual object to women, but because men view female breasts as sexual they have to be totally covered when a baby is being fed) because they need to have room for those mammary glands to produce lots of healthy creamy milk to feed those hungry babies.
I have no issue with mothers nursing their children wherever or however they choose. Babies don’t care as long as they get their milk. I can’t blame them. Why should OUR rights override theirs??
28 Jul 2006 @ 13:41 | Permalink
I think one thing to note is the location. If you go to the beach, you should expect to see people in speedos and bikinis. If you watch a rated R movie, you should expect that you’ll probably see a movie.
However, if you go to the grocery store, I’m certainly not expecting to see a woman’s breast. Additionally, the chance of the baby detaching from the breast to catch a breath opens the possibility of the woman’s nipple being exposed to public view. That, I think, is public indecency.
I’ll agree that society has created the taboo, but it exists regardless of logical opposition to it. I know that a breast is for feeding a baby, but when I see one, my mind is led to think things I would rather not. For me, seeing an exposed breast in public is pornography.
You say you have yet to meet a women who is indiscreet, but perhaps we’re getting into semantics. If you prefer not to cover yourself with a blanket, that means that you might also end up exposing your full breast to public view while feeding your child. Any precautions to prevent that, I think are necessary. Whether that be covering yourself up, removing yourself to a secluded location, or waiting until you have a private moment, I cannot say which is best.
All I know is that I don’t want to see exposed breasts in unexpected places, just as I also don’t want to see pop-up advertisements with naked women while surfing the internet. It’s a matter of choice. I can choose to not go to the beach, or choose to not see a rated R movie. But I can’t choose when you’ll accidentally let your breast be exposed as I walk by in a restaurant.
28 Jul 2006 @ 13:58 | Permalink
The solution is easy, Connor: don’t look at women breastfeeding.
28 Jul 2006 @ 14:00 | Permalink
I don’t stare, but it’s impossible to avoid all possible encounters when your eyes roam as you walk and conduct your daily affairs. Knowing who to look at and who not to is a futile task.
If I see a woman breastfeeding, sure, I’ll turn away. But if when I glance at the woman at the table next to me, and her breast is exposed, it’s too little too late.
28 Jul 2006 @ 14:13 | Permalink
“However, if you go to the grocery store, Iâm certainly not expecting to see a womanâs breast. Additionally, the chance of the baby detaching from the breast to catch a breath opens the possibility of the womanâs nipple being exposed to public view. That, I think, is public indecency.”
I have a tendency not to look at women’s breasts, or any other body part which might seem ‘indecent”. When I go to the grocery store, I don’t really check out other people, I see them, yes, but I don’t go over their body to make sure they are covered or not. I shop. Of course, pushing a cart, wearing a baby and making sure my other two are in tow probably keeps me from having the time and ability to peruse other people. Then again, I also have things to buy and I need to pay attention to that.
Ok, I have another request. If you or anyone thinks I should make sure I don’t expose myself in public, maybe bottle fed babies should be covered with a blanket too? Private moment? Sometimes that isn’t possible. I am going to go under the assumption that you don’t have a small baby, perhaps never had, since you seem to be unaware that babies sometimes CANNOT wait. :) And if I have to seclude MYSELF, then I will ask that anyone who is eating period should be secluded as well. I find the way some people eat to be rather disgusting and rude.
I have been breastfeeding for 7.5 years straight. Yep, 7.5 years. And I can promise you that I have enough experience and adeptness that there is no way I am going to show you or anyone else skin unless I want to. I have learned to anticipate when my baby is planning on removing her/himself.
I don’t want to see exposed skin when I walk down the street, but unfortunately I see far too much, not just teenagers, but adults who think it’s ok to wear tiny pieces of clothing overtop of not so tiny bodies. I have no choice, I have to walk down the street. I would also like my children to not be exposed to vulgar language, or smoking, but if I am walking down the street, this often happens, if I am waiting at a bus stop (well not so much anymore) this happens. How about these things stop too?
How about, instead of adults expounding about what they think are their rights of viewing, they remember they are ADULTS. Babies are babies, they understand three things, the need to be loved, comfortable and fed. Oh wait. That’s all the same thing. Babies understand what love is and what neglect is, if only at a base level. Sometimes I have waited to nurse my baby when I can find a comfortable place. Not because I am afraid to expose myself, but because it just isn’t possible where I am at. But I still maintain, if other people have a right to eat wherever they are and however they are, then so does my baby.
I think the real issue is that society has a problem with women as mothers. It’s uncomfortable to see a woman in a maternal role, as it changes her sexuality, because women are supposed to be for men’s pleasure, right? At least that is what society and Hollywood seem to perpetuate. But when a woman shows a motherly purpose that is somewhat frightening, it takes away this control. Subconciously perhaps? Possibly. So it’s ok for a woman to expose most of her breast as long as a baby isn’t attached to it, but when a baby is attached, or was a moment ago, that creates fear and abhorrence.
Ah, I see. You are a bachelor. Ok, one of these days you will learn. Husbands do. I hope that you are able to support your wife in breastfeeding your babies and realising the great, wonderful God-given gift you are giving them.
Kim’s right, don’t look at women breastfeeding. But if you do, instead of looking horrified at the thought, smile at her and give her a thumbs up. She may be doing it after a lot of pressure NOT too, she may be a new mum. But nothing is more heartening than to be given a hearty congratulations and kudos that she is doing this for her baby. Breastfeeding mums need support, not condemnation.
28 Jul 2006 @ 14:19 | Permalink
Let me reiterate: I do not stare. I just don’t want to have to see anybody’s nipples, just as I didn’t want to see Janet Jackson’s.
If you have mastered the art of decently breastfeeding, then more power to you. I think mothers are great, and I think nursing your children is great. But when I get married and have children, I don’t want anybody else seeing my wife’s fully exposed breast. I’ll support her breastfeeding, even in public, but in a decent manner so as to not flash anybody.
And just for you, next time I see a mother nursing, I’ll give her a thumbs up. :) I may get a strange reaction, but maybe it will have the Patch Adams effect..
28 Jul 2006 @ 14:31 | Permalink
Connor
Let me promise you it is highly unlikely you will ever see an exposed nipple or your wife will expose her nipple.
Thank you! I hope you do :) You probably won’t get a strange reaction, I love getting smiles when people see me breastfeeding. It gives me warm fuzzies that there are many who support breastfeeding. It’s a great feeling.
28 Jul 2006 @ 15:25 | Permalink
Bill Said:
“there is nothing … sexual about a woman breast feeding.”
Bill,
This all depends on the “viewer”. For some it may not be, for some it can be as sexual as any form of pornography out there.
Just because something doesn’t excite you doesn’t mean everyone else feels the same way.
JM
28 Jul 2006 @ 18:05 | Permalink
I will repeat myself. There is nothing sexual about a woman who is breast feeding her baby. It is a wonderful moment between a mother and her child.
There is nothing sexual about seeing a nipple or a breast. Turn your TV onto the Nature Channel and you will see Breast and Nipples and it is not sexual.
If a woman feeding her child turns you on, then you need to see a doctor.
It seems really weird that I have found something I agree with Mary on.
28 Jul 2006 @ 20:20 | Permalink
“It seems really weird that I have found something I agree with Mary on.”
I know, it is kind of weird isn’t it? lol
This is a subject I am very passionate about. Society has tried for so long to turn breastfeeding into something shameful and I finally figured out the reason why. It is because the people who are so freaked out about public breastfeeding are so conditioned to view women as sexual objects, the idea that she is maternal is frightening to them. Anything to de-maternalise women is the goal.
28 Jul 2006 @ 21:12 | Permalink
Bill,
That’s a very self centered outlook.
Mary,
Are you saying that you agree with Bill that there is nothing sexual about seeing a breast or nipple?
The only thing shameful about breastfeeding or any other form of public nudity is that for some reason when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, they became aware of their nakedness and felt a conscious need to cover themselves. It would appear that their offspring share this sense of shame to one degree or another.
Previous to that time, they were as innocent as any other animal and had no concept of shame of being naked. But for some reason, God has deemed nakedness to be taboo.
Breastfeeding may be perfectly natural, just like a calf drinking milk from the mother cow in an open field. Urinating in public is also perfectly natural. Perhaps I should be free to “relieve myself” on any tree down at Princess Island Park during my lunch hour?
I also seem to remember a scripture or two about the “Natural Man”. Perhaps all “Natural” bodily functions just aren’t meant to be public?
For me, the issue is the same as smoking in public. Some argue that the smoker should have the right to smoke or not smoke in public. But smoking in public can affect the non-smoker, and the non-smoker has no choice in the matter.
Breastfeeding in public makes some people uncomfortable because they feel it is indecent. If this is happening in public, someone passing by doesn’t have much of a choice whether they are confronted by it or not. Sure you can say “look away”, but that’s like telling the non-smoker to just hold their breath when a bunch of smokers are puffing away at the entrance to some mall or hospital or wherever.
If you feel the need to breastfeed in public when there are more discreet options available, then you are thinking only of yourself.
If you choose to keep a natural bodily function more private out of a sense of moral decency, then I congratulate you.
Mary, perhaps some of your comments in #9 are accurate some of the time, but I can assure you that they are not absolute. For me, looking at a bare breast, breastfeeding or not, does nothing to change how I view a woman’s sexuality for me. For me, my brain just says “Hey, bare breast!!! Look at that!!!”. I’ve had that same response for most of my life, and it hasn’t stopped.
I love seeing women in their maternal role. I don’t think I’m alone. I definitly felt a new sense of attraction to my wife when she was pregnant and when we had small babies and all her “parts” were being used for their god intended purpose. My reaction to a naked woman does not change when she is “more maternal”.
Mary, with all of your passion on the subject, I’d be interested to know if you breastfeed during the middle of sacrament meeting or if you go into the mothers lounge or bathroom or somewhere more discreet.
And finally Mary, please forgive me if I’ve completely missed the point. I’m not arguing if breastfeeding is right or wrong. I’m all for it, just in private.
JM
28 Jul 2006 @ 22:47 | Permalink
“Are you saying that you agree with Bill that there is nothing sexual about seeing a breast or nipple?”
Well, let’s see. Yes, society has deemed that seeing a breast or a nipple is sexual, but it isn’t for everyone, and since men go shirtless often at this time of the year, is it sexual seeing a man’s breast or nipple? And as long as part of the breast is covered, or the nipple is covered it’s ok? So a baby nursing is wrong, but a teenager wearing a tiny triangle bikini top is ok?
“Mary, perhaps some of your comments in #9 are accurate some of the time, but I can assure you that they are not absolute. For me, looking at a bare breast, breastfeeding or not, does nothing to change how I view a womanâs sexuality for me. For me, my brain just says âHey, bare breast!!! Look at that!!!â. Iâve had that same response for most of my life, and it hasnât stopped.”
JM that’s fine.
“I love seeing women in their maternal role. I donât think Iâm alone. I definitly felt a new sense of attraction to my wife when she was pregnant and when we had small babies and all her âpartsâ were being used for their god intended purpose. My reaction to a naked woman does not change when she is âmore maternalâ.”
My husband is the same. But I am willing to bet there are many who don’t feel this way. Otherwise there wouldn’t be such a push for women to be in sexual roles in life. Look at the media.
“Mary, with all of your passion on the subject, Iâd be interested to know if you breastfeed during the middle of sacrament meeting or if you go into the mothers lounge or bathroom or somewhere more discreet.”
Generally I go to the Mother’s lounge, but not because it is more discreet, it’s because it is quieter and more comfortable (generally). However, I have breastfed in sacrament, I have breastfed during stake conference, I have breastfed in the foyer, I have breastfed in RS, Primary, etc etc. I have breastfed doing my shopping, walking down the aisle. If my baby needs to nurse, I nurse.
If you think breastfeeding should be “private” then go ahead, feel that way, all I am asking that the same standards apply to everyone. If babies should be ashamed of how they eat (and they certainly are not) then babies who are bottlefed should be taken somewhere else to eat and adults and older children and teenagers should eat in private places. It’s all a matter of societal perception. My baby has a right to have her needs met when they are needed to be met. Not I, nor any other mother should be made to feel that it is wrong to nurse our babies in any place.
Oh and besides that, it is not illegal to breastfeed my baby in public and it is not legal for anyone to ask a nursing mother to remove herself in any public place. If you don’t like to see a mother nursing her baby in public, than don’t look.
I was very fortunate when I was young to be “exposed” to nursing mothers. My mother didn’t see the need to run off to another room, nor did other mothers in our ward feel the need. So I saw my baby brothers and sisters (well ok, sister, there is only 16 months between myself and my next sister) nursing and it didn’t phase me. I have never had a problem seeing a mother nursing her child.
“Iâm all for it, just in private.”
Ok, then make sure you eat in private too. Always. It’s the double standard that gets me. There is not a thing wrong with breastfeeding a baby wherever s/he needs to be nursed, it’s our society that has created such a stigma about it, and the babies and the mothers suffer because of it. Private or public, babies need to eat. When people start to realise that breastfeeding is not a sexual act and breasts, in that regard, are not sexual, then maybe enlightenment will come.
29 Jul 2006 @ 08:00 | Permalink
Mary,
I notice that you failed to address JM’s citation of the story regarding Adam and Eve being naked. Obviously, it is proper and correct to cover ourselves and not expose our “private parts” to others.
Your campaign for equality disturbs me. Men and women are not equals. They never were intended to be. This fact is established even in the Proclamation on the Family, where the gender roles are carefully delineated. To push for gender equality on all issues is absurd and unsubstantiated.
JM makes a good point that it is important, if not charitable, to be mindful of others. Just because you think that I shouldn’t see a woman’s breast and think sexual thoughts does not mean that I don’t. That’s fine if you have some perception of how things “should be”, but that’s not how things are. The deacon next to you in sacrament meeting is going to giggle when he sees your boob, ipso facto.
29 Jul 2006 @ 13:00 | Permalink
go to the bathroom to nurse your baby? ACCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK.. who wants to eat their dinner in a bathroom????
Just what I always wanted to do with my children when they were being nursed.. sit on some dirty toilet for 30 minutes.. holding up other people needing to use the cubicle.. It’s bad enough most public bathrooms don’t have change tables and you have to put your baby on the floor to change their diapers now you have to sit on the toilet to feed them….
But what annoys me even more are fathers who follow their wives into the nursing lounge in church and sit in the recliners while other mothers sit on a hard chair or have to wait their turn. Where is the so called privacy that you asked us to use when we nurse babies when fathers do that?
29 Jul 2006 @ 15:21 | Permalink
Connor
I must have missed the Adam and Eve reference. Hmm
I see there are a few other issues I didn’t address either. Such as relieving oneself in public. I don’t believe that breastfeeding should be equated with human waste as this is not the same thing. As well, smoking in public is hazardous to other’s health. Breastfeeding does not physically harm others. This public breastfeeding taboo is a modern, western notion, not practices in other cultures.
“Your campaign for equality disturbs me. Men and women are not equals. They never were intended to be. This fact is established even in the Proclamation on the Family, where the gender roles are carefully delineated. To push for gender equality on all issues is absurd and unsubstantiated.”
My “campaign for equality” is basically to point out the ridiculousness of treating breastfeeding babies as pariahs. And I am not sure what this has to do with breastfeeding.
Ok back to Adam and Eve. It seems that you (and JM) are of the belief that I believe we should run rampant naked. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am a strict believer in modesty. Some people think we take the modesty thing too far (no sleeveless dresses or tops for our children no matter what their age) As I stated before, I don’t think there is anything wrong with public nursing, I don’t believe nursing mothers should be relegated to the bathroom, nor are they allowed to be asked to stop nursing. Having seen many babies nursing, it is very very rare to see any skin, never mind a nipple. However, if you DO happen to see a bit of skin and are aware a baby is nursing, what’s the point of making a huge issue about it?
Oh and JM, “thinking only of myself and not others”, not true. When I nurse my babies I think of my babies. I don’t expose myself, however it has never offended me to see someone nursing, even if she exposes a bit of skin. To hear people refer to a nursing baby as “disgusting” because a little breast MIGHT be exposed, is something I find distastfeul and rather frightening. Or I shoudl say, to hear breastfeeding referred to as disgusting bothers me. Very much.
My (as you term it, Connor) equality statements are to point out the discrepencies. Society has decided a woman’s breast is sexual. They were/are created by God to nourish a baby, so who’s right? Wester society or Heavenly Father?
As far as being charitable, my baby understands only one thing, is she loved? I think of my baby. I would like to see people be more considerate of babies’ needs instead of jumping the gun and condemning a mother for nursing her baby and perhaps see what is important here. And again, don’t look if you are afraid you are going to see a bit of skin.
A question. have either of you EVER seen a woman’s breast bare or a nipple when she is nursing in public? And do either of you think it is more detrimental that you see it, or that the baby gets fed? And as far as finding somewhere “discreet”, I can just tell you that there are few places accomodating to nursing mothers. If a mother is nursing in public, odds are there isn’t anywhere else she can be, for many reasons. There may not be a place for her to sit (the bathroom does not count), the mother’s lounge may be very stinky, full or non-existent, she may have other children she cannot leave, she may have a cart full of groceries she can’t just leave standing, she may be wedged in and not able to leave (this has happened to me), or there may be other reasons. How about, instead of being accusatory and judgemental, you show some compassion for her and her baby?
29 Jul 2006 @ 16:11 | Permalink
29 Jul 2006 @ 16:25 | Permalink
“The portions of our bodies used to propagate the human race are private.”
Breasts are to feed babies. And as I constantly say, women aren’t trying to show off their breasts, they are trying to feed their babies.
“A nipple is a nipple.”
And men have nipples. So do children.
“Additionally, I have not intended my comments to be accusatory in nature;”
But they are.
And you say when you glance at a woman and see exposed breast…well why are you looking at her breasts? When I look at people I don’t generally automatically go to their chest. It’s usually the face I look at.
“Itâs not the end of the world to see an exposed breast. I would just prefer not to.”
Then don’t look.
“I think there should be, and hopefully is, a happy medium where âlactivistsâ and âprudesâ can meet half-way.”
That would be nice. But often, the prudes are so judgemental when there is absolutely no need to be, that it is very upsetting. On a bus, I was nursing my baby, who was completely covered. There wasn’t a slip of skin showing (as most of the passengers would attest to) and a teenage girl took offense to it. She proceeded to look horrified, whisper loudly to her friend until I asked her to stop. It wasn’t the SKIN that bothered her (as there was none, I checked) it was the fact I WAS nursing.
Again, society. Very sad.
29 Jul 2006 @ 16:40 | Permalink
Mary Said:
“If you think breastfeeding should be âprivateâ then go ahead, feel that way, all I am asking that the same standards apply to everyone.”
There is no double standard. The standard in question is not about how babies eat. It’s about seeing a naked breast. If breastfeeding can be done without the naked breast, then go for it.
I also find it strange that you justify seeing the naked woman’s breast in public during breastfeeding by aligning it with the immodesty we see in public. Basically, by siding with immodesty, you are not only condoning it, but also agreeing that naked womens breasts during breastfeeding are immodest.
Interesting…
29 Jul 2006 @ 16:48 | Permalink
Agreed w/ JM. It seems as if this is boiling down to a childish version of “Well if Tommy can do it, so can I!!!”. I would try to use that argument with my parents for a variety of reasons: dating before 16, staying out past curfew, playing on Sunday, etc.
It never worked. You can’t justify your own actions based on the actions of others. Saying that women everywhere should be able to breastfeed simply because people wear bikinis, eat at restaurants, and smoke outside is a fruitless comparative attempt to justify your own actions.
I’m not saying breastfeeding is bad. Like JM, I fully agree that you are welcomed to breastfeed in public as long as nobody sees your boob.
Also, you commented previously that JM and I seemed to think that you thought we should be able to run around naked all day. Such assumptive logic is in error, just as in your assumption that I am always looking at the chests of women I walk by.
Such is not the case. But when a woman’s breast is exposed, and my eyes are wandering as I am walking or looking around, it’s fairly impossible to not see it at all. This is simple to illustrate. How often do we look at somebody picking at their nose, singing in their car, or picking a wedgie? Just because you don’t want to see something doesn’t mean you’re bestowed the supernatural ability to not look at it. Sure, you can look away immediately after witnessing it, but it’s “too little too late”. You’ve already seen the picked wedgie, picked nose, car singer, or in this case, bare breast.
Sure, the girl in the bus was at fault for looking at you in horror as you breastfed with no exposed skin. But complaining about how society is does not do much for anybody. Similar things happen for disabled kids, people with funny haircuts, men with lots of ear hair, and overweight people. Having a vendetta against society because of experiences such as these would cause everybody to be angry at society, for all of us have been subject to scorn and ridicule at some time.
29 Jul 2006 @ 16:58 | Permalink
“Basically, by siding with immodesty, you are not only condoning it, but also agreeing that naked womens breasts during breastfeeding are immodest.”
I don’t side with immodesty, I am questioning YOUR double standard. You say a slight view of a breast is abhorrent, but I don’t hear the same concerns raised about low rise jeans or tank tops.
For the record, I strictly adhere to modesty. My children are taught to dress modestly all the time, from birth on. So am I. This means they are to wear clothing that would cover garments if they were to wear them. No short shorts, no tank tops, no belly shirts, no mini skirts. Yes, even for my 7 year old.
I am not using an “if she can do it, I can do it”. I am saying, have some compassion. Most women aren’t out to show off their breasts. They are trying to feed their babies. Instead of jumping up to accuse and attack them, have some compassion for them.
I also don’t have a vendetta against anyone. I believe in honouring nursing mums and supporting them. I think of the nursing babe, and am happy they can nurse.
Oh, and Connor, I don’t refer to my breasts, or any other women’s breasts as “boobs”. So please don’t refer to MINE as “boobs”. A boob is someone who does something stupid. A breast is something that nurtures someone.
29 Jul 2006 @ 17:20 | Permalink
29 Jul 2006 @ 17:34 | Permalink
“Breasts are to feed babies. And as I constantly say, women arenât trying to show off their breasts, they are trying to feed their babies.”
This statement is false on two accounts.
1) Breasts are not only to feed babies. They are also like the peacock’s feathers. They are also used to attract the opposite sex (for humans, maybe other species, I don’t know). They biologically and culturally have this effect.
2) I have seen a few, not many, new young mothers do some “Showing Off” in public while breastfeeding.
“And you say when you glance at a woman and see exposed breastâŚwell why are you looking at her breasts? When I look at people I donât generally automatically go to their chest. Itâs usually the face I look at. ”
That’s because you are a woman. Many men tend to look a little furthur down at a first glance. I’m not sure why this is. Perhaps it’s social conditioning, perhaps biological, but it happens more times than not.
In fact, I have seen co-workers of mine walking around downtown Calgary actually scouting out breastfeeding women, trying to catch a glimpse. These are grown men, between the ages of 20 and 45.
“Then donât look.”
This is a very naive statement. For many men, it’s just not that simple. That’s like saying to the gambling addict “Just don’t gamble” or to the alcoholic, “Just don’t drink”. Men are going to look. Sometimes I think women underestimate the power of their feminine form.
I think on the issue of breastfeeding in public, of course women should be allowed to do it.
On the issue of dressing immodestly or exposing “sexual” body parts, this needs to stop, regardless if it’s on the red mile, during mardi gras, or in a mall while a mother breastfeeds.
29 Jul 2006 @ 17:35 | Permalink
“I also find it strange that you justify seeing the naked womanâs breast in public during breastfeeding by aligning it with the immodesty we see in public.”
Based on what I read in Mary’s comments, it seemed to me she was saying just the opposite. In other words, if breastfeeding women are expected to cover up every square inch of skin, then so should every other person who shoes off skin (whether it be plunging necklines, sleeveless shirts, short skirts, midriff-baring tees, low-rise jeans, and so on). If anything, Mary comments seemed unequivocally opposed to immodesty. I find it odd someone would interpret otherwise.
29 Jul 2006 @ 17:38 | Permalink
I find it odd that she would need to bring it into the conversation at all. After a quick re-read of the thread, I don’t see anybody saying that it was ok for anybody to show exposed skin via immodest dress.
Sounds like a serving of frustration with a side of strawman.
29 Jul 2006 @ 17:43 | Permalink
“1) Breasts are not only to feed babies. They are also like the peacockâs feathers. They are also used to attract the opposite sex (for humans, maybe other species, I donât know). They biologically and culturally have this effect.”
Heavenly Father didn’t create this, society has created it. In some cultures, not ours obviously, breasts are not seen as sexual objects. By using this argument we can say that any body part is a sexual object. Skin being the largest one of all. No matter where it is.
“Thatâs because you are a woman. Many men tend to look a little furthur down at a first glance. Iâm not sure why this is. Perhaps itâs social conditioning, perhaps biological, but it happens more times than not.”
Do men discuss this?
“Iâm sorry you disagree, and think that men shouldnât have sexual thoughts when seeing an exposed breast during breastfeeding, but for whatever reason, thatâs the way it is.”
Whose fault is this, Connor? Not the woman’s. There are men who have sexual thoughts when they see children. Whether dressed or not, does this mean I lock up my children? No, I wish I could lock up the men who do this. There are men who have sexual thoughts just SEEING a woman, whether she is provocatively dressed or not.
Anyway, I’m done. My points are clear, I don’t think breastfeeding mothers should be made to pay the price for the depravity of western society. Unfortunately they continue to do so.
29 Jul 2006 @ 17:56 | Permalink
“I find it odd that she would need to bring it into the conversation at all. After a quick re-read of the thread, I donât see anybody saying that it was ok for anybody to show exposed skin via immodest dress.”
I feel like a broken record. It’s the double standard I was bringing up. Why women who breastfeed in public are vilified, but I don’t see rants (here or elsewhere) about women or men wearing next to nothing. The same people who see a nursing mum and take offense seem to be the ones who say nothing when a girl walks by showing more skin than clothing.
29 Jul 2006 @ 17:59 | Permalink
Heavenly Father didnât create this, society has created it. In some cultures, not ours obviously, breasts are not seen as sexual objects. By using this argument we can say that any body part is a sexual object.
How can you say with such authority that God did not intend breasts to also be sexual objects? Are you advocating that it be socially acceptable for women to roam topless wherever they go, just as men can? And who is to say that just because African tribes adopt this mentality, that it is the correct one? Perhaps their culture is in error, and ours is not. Not being able to speak for God, how can you claim to know how He intended breasts to be used? Sorry, but I agree w/ JM. Breasts do not merely serve for feeding infants.
Whose fault is this, Connor? Not the womanâs.
Then why did Elder Oaks tell women to dress modestly to not become pornography for men? Why didn’t he instead tell men to fix their heads and stop thinking that way?
29 Jul 2006 @ 18:05 | Permalink
“Why didnât he instead tell men to fix their heads and stop thinking that way?”
Good question. Why take the onus from men to be responsible for their thoughts? Why should it be the woman’s fault if a man can’t control his thoughts?
29 Jul 2006 @ 18:09 | Permalink
“I donât see anybody saying that it was ok for anybody to show exposed skin via immodest dress. Sounds like a serving of frustration with a side of strawman.”
You mean just like the idea of women exposing themselves while nursing. No one said it was okay that women expose themselves while nursing, yet there seem to be assumptions made that by default women expose themselves when breastfeeding; that it doesn’t go without saying that most (if not all) women breastfeed discreetly in public.
29 Jul 2006 @ 18:18 | Permalink
Well, this has been enlightening.
At least I have a better appreciation for another view on the subject.
I guess I’ll agree to disagree. :-)
29 Jul 2006 @ 18:20 | Permalink
Sounds to me as if some of you who have written on this thread need to reexam your reasons for being opposed to a woman breast feeding. What I read was that your eyes says breast and your mind says sex and then you feel guilty for having sexual thoughts and you want to blame the woman for your sexual thoughts.
You need to learn to control your thoughts. You sound like the men from the Arab woman who punish women by making them wear stupid clothes that cover them from head to toe so the men do not have to learn how to control their thoughts.
Breast feeding a baby is not sexual and any attempt you make to deem it sexual shows that you have not learn how to control your thoughts. Learn to be a man. When I was a child I thought as a child but when I became a man I put away childish thoughts.
29 Jul 2006 @ 20:27 | Permalink
Breast feeding a baby is not sexual and any attempt you make to deem it sexual shows that you have not learn how to control your thoughts. Learn to be a man.
As JM noted earlier, one could also argue, using similar logic, for the ability to urinate on command in public. This is not a sexual act either, yet it is not condoned.
Taking the example to the extreme in order to be able to compare it to Arab women covering their entire body is unfounded.
30 Jul 2006 @ 00:06 | Permalink
Using the example of urinating in public is stupid. You need to become a man and start protecting women instead of seeing them as a sex toy. You are wrong. Go pray about it. The Church allows women to breast feed because it is the right thing to do.
30 Jul 2006 @ 09:59 | Permalink
That doesn’t happen in our building, Mum. The only access to the mother’s lounge is through the female washroom.
31 Jul 2006 @ 08:28 | Permalink
If there’s some guy who gets turned on by a woman breastfeeding, it’s the guy who has the problem. That’s how babies eat.
There’s just something wrong about a society that sexualizes everything, or seemingly so.
My wife sounds a lot like Mary. After we had our first child and we were out of our home, she’d usually go to someplace like a restroom in order to nurse our baby. But she soon began to think that doing so was ridiculous — why go to the inconvenience to do something so natural and important? So with our later children, she would breastfeed the babies as needed. She was always discreet, but she didn’t accept any flak (nor did she get much) for using her body for what God intended it.
A year ago we were in Latin America, and as we were waiting outside the chapel for sacrament, in walks a woman nursing her child while walking in the door. Of course, nobody (except for us gringos) even noticed. And why should they? It just isn’t that big of a deal.
4 Aug 2006 @ 07:09 | Permalink
13 Dec 2006 @ 19:07 | Permalink
Huh, what???
14 Dec 2006 @ 15:40 | Permalink
You’re not the only one, Jordan.
14 Dec 2006 @ 15:47 | Permalink
Sean,
It’s a habit huh?
Like smoking or biting one’s nails?
You, my friend, are a loon.
18 Dec 2006 @ 10:31 | Permalink
19 Dec 2006 @ 22:17 | Permalink
poor spelling: check!
supports the Republicans: check!
ultra conservative: check!
People like you really do scare me, Sean.
What could possibly be more natural than a woman breastfeeding her child?
If you think it’s an indecent act, then it’s your right as an American to think that way. Fortunately this right also extends to having the right to be wrong; and I think you are.
Shall we have the ladies wear burhkas? Would that be modest enough for you?
Snap out of it. If you don’t like seeing mothers breastfeed in public, stop watching them. With the exception of the odd new-age hippy wannabe, most women a pretty discreet about the whole thing.
20 Dec 2006 @ 09:44 | Permalink
To say i scare you Rick is pretty backwards, because your the one who scares me for condoning sexual indecent exposure such as public breastfeeding to be a social norm. You also said this Rick “Snap out of it. If you donât like seeing mothers breastfeed in public, stop watching them.”, how can i stop watching someone when you have this push-it-in-your-face-boobs attitude sort of thing to be arrogant about it??, if women dont like people staring at them for showing some bad manners to be indecently exposed, then maybe they should take responsibilitys enough to take it to a private location. That would be like if a man came into a restaurant and urinated in a jar to show his penis in public so i make a complain to the manager, would you say the same thing about a man urinating in public??. I bet you would Rick, you would say “oh if you dont like seeing people urinating in public, than dont stare”
26 Dec 2006 @ 18:49 | Permalink
“condoning sexual indecent exposure such as public breastfeeding”
Breastfeeding is sexual? Well, no wonder you feel the way you do.
26 Dec 2006 @ 20:49 | Permalink
Breastfeeding is not sexual. That is something in your perverted imagination and that of an uneduacted society. Breastfeeding is not disposing of bodily waste matter nor showing male/female intimacy. It is strictly nourishing and comforting a baby. Your ideas, Sean, are not only archaic, but they are uninformed. Since most women do not expose themselves, when nursing their babies, I wonder where your strange ideas come from.
Your lack of proper grammar and spelling indicates that you are very young, and likely very inexperienced. I see more flesh and exposure on a non breastfeeding woman (usually a teenage girl) than I do on a breastfeeding mother. If you actually notice a baby breastfeeding, you would have to be staring avidly and sitting or standing very close. The majority of mothers are too adept at nursing in public to show even a flash of skin. Trust me on that one.
Your opinion about women is very alarming. Your lack of respect for women is quite apparent. If you had any respect for them you would not speak of women in such a degrading way.
Oh, and another thing. Why do you like seeing women in high heels? Do you know the reason they were invented? To raise a woman’s derriere to show it in a more “attractive” way for men. Quite chauvinistic. It seems to me you see women as sexual objects rather than as individuals in our own right. There are men (and boys) who cannot bear to view women in the role of a mother as this is a frightening thing to contemplate. It seems to me you are one of these individuals.
26 Dec 2006 @ 22:14 | Permalink
Way to go Mary!!!!!!!!!
Are you a memeber of the Quiver full of Arrows group?
27 Dec 2006 @ 16:06 | Permalink
Actually about 3-4 weeks ago, a woman in my home ward had a baby. She stood up one day during Sacrament and wrapped this rather odd piece of clothing around her and her baby – I presume a new invention to make breastfeeding more comfortable and less exposed.
Undoubtedly many of the YM realised and began to stare and giggle during the meeting. Personally I had nothing against this, yes it was obvious what was happening, but it wasn’t exposed as it has been stated the Hondurans were. Breastfeeding is yes natural, and to Sean – for the baby this is necessary – to have sex in public it is not!
I’m a Brit rather than an American, and I have to admit, we have pretty much the same culture to see a boob and go wow look at that, you don’t see that everyday! But there comes a point when you have to grow up and just accept that breastfeeding is a part of life! So why should we ban it! This world is becoming so “correct” it’s ridiculous to be quite honest. I’d love to hear some feedback on my thoughts.
27 Dec 2006 @ 16:35 | Permalink
I have never heard of the Quiverfull of Arrows group.
ldsuk87
Excellent points. Thank you for sharing. You are right, it is just a part of life!
27 Dec 2006 @ 19:01 | Permalink
Mary Siever…breastfeeding is sexual when you bring it out in public where everyone can see a human being eating off of sexual private parts kind of like what you see in a wh*re house or a stripclub ok!!!. So based on your miseducated, backwards twisted logic Mary…does that mean that if a man pulls out his penis to urinate in public just to showoff, would that make me a pervert because i dont like the sight of that??, i mean after all breastfeeding is a natural bodily function just like urinating-defacating Mary. Just so you know Mary before you call people perverts for not wanting indecent exposure past, its YOU Mary who thinks so pervertedly to have public indecent exposure be legal and to be a social norm. Anytime a anyone exposes there sexual private parts male-female wether it would be breast or a penis…would defenatly make them a real pervert on there behalf since they are going out of there way to expose it where there maybe children or other adults to see this perverted dirty action. See Mary…its time you start taking RESPONSIBILITYS FOR YOUR ACTIONS and stop putting the blame on other people by calling them *perverts” because they dont like the ugly, unsanitary, sexually obscene sight of public breastfeeding. When a women starts crying rape because of stalkers…then i guess they have nothing more but to blame themselves Mary for not covering up there breast since they choose to act like a dirty wh*re about it to expose there breast. You seem really sexist Mary and your logic is very backwards, plus not to mention how you make no bit if sense when you talk Oh lets blame the person for being a pervert and having a perverted mind because he doesnt like the sight of exposed breast being shown while public breastfeeding” that really makes much sense Mary :::eyes roll::. Thats like saying “we should the blame on a group of thugs for stealing that mans expensive Bently for parking it in a crime infested neighborhood with his windows halfway rolled down with the keys on the ignitions” well in a case like that Mary –hypothedically speaking–that man who parked his Expensive Bently in a crime infested neighborhood with his windows halfway rolled along with his keys on the ignition just for those groups of thugs to steal… isnt really so much that we should blame a group of thugs since that man didnt take responsibilitys to park it in a private location with the keys off the ignition to have his windows rolled up. Well same with a women who walks around half naked and then gets stalked by some pervert…she is morely to blame but herself for not taking the responsibilitys to coverup her breast to try and showoff by acting like a sl*t. Public breastfeeding is a perverted action that applys mainly to the mother who is bringing out her sexual private parts openly where everyone can see along with children in the process which would make that mother a p*dophile. Public breastfeeding needs to be illegal in all 50 states if we can get a good strong republican in the whitehouse like Newt Gingrich to make America a more decent civilized country with good moral values
27 Dec 2006 @ 20:27 | Permalink
Just so you know Mary…i have no respect for a women who exposes her breast in public ok!!!, when they purposely go out of there way to do such things like that, it automatically shows they are a wh*re and a sl*t on the basis of showing off there sexual private parts. I do have respect for the idealistic conservative breastfeeding women who takes it to a private location like a bathroom, a car, a nursing facility or her house where its not gonna creep the rest of us out. When women choose to expose there breast to public breastfeed…i’m not degrading women Mary just so you know, they are degrading themselves as women and lowering there highclass standards. No self respecting, upscale women with class and manners doesnt public breastfeed ok!!!, i know because i live in a upscale classy, gated community where mostly all breastfeeding mothers have more dignitys to take it to a private location when there at a country club full of upscale citizens and at a upscale restaurant. To show some class and respect for others, you breastfeed where its not gonna be in the way of customers
27 Dec 2006 @ 22:28 | Permalink
Iâm a Brit rather than an American, and I have to admit, we have pretty much the same culture to see a boob and go wow look at that, you donât see that everyday! But there comes a point when you have to grow up and just accept that breastfeeding is a part of life! So why should we ban it!”
umm IDSUK87….breastfeeding is not done out of a sexual act as long as its hidden away where its not veiwed to everyone, when you public breastfeed, its no different than two couples going out in public to have sex while a female is latched onto a guys penis where everyone can see. Just the thought of watching a nother human being latched onto someone’s sexual private parts is erotic, its sexually pornographic, its sexually obscene and tends to make others creeped out by this R rated action. What if there are kids around in a restaurant or a store that cant help but see a mothers breast exposed while she is breastfeeding that child in public…children who see that will get some dirty thoughts in there heads and feel uncompfortable kind of like watching an adult film thats not for children to watch. What society really needs to do is wakeup and smell the coffee and stop looking at indecent exposure as a social norm. When a weak minded liberal society condones this dirty, sexual lewd conduct act of public breastfeeding, soon or a later society starts to breakdown to where aventually we lose a civilized moral society. A new generation of people who see this as a social norm begin to become a bunch of ignorant uncivilized savages who dont understand the concept of CLASS, MANNERS, DECENCY AND SHAME. America was brought up on Christian Values when the Pilgrims and Puritans came to settle down here to make America a civilized society with good moral principles. If there were Pilgrims around to see how our society has become with all this public breastfeeding being legal in America and as a social norm, pilgrims and puritans would be rolling around on there graves. We cannot let america go to hell and let this country turn out like Canada, public breastfeeding is allowed by a free liberal society that makes it ok to be rude, impolite and disrespectful of one a nother which is what public breastfeeding is. I have no problems at all with nursing in public but only with the acception of a bottle the sophisticated way. I support public nursing, but not the lactivist kind of nursing in public, lactivist are a poison to this country and make all breastfeeding mothers look bad. I respect breastfeeding mothers in all…but not lactivist who support public breastfeeding in there own screwy way to have this push-it-in-your-face-boobs attitude sort of thing to be arrogant. The true idealistic conservative breastfeeding mother is what i dont have a problem with, its lactivist who are the real trouble makers that make all breastfeeding mothers look discraceful and embarrass themselves by demonstrating in front of Delta holding up signs. Lactivist who wanna try to demonstrate to make trouble for others by making Delta business slow…they deserve a shot of pepper spray in there eyes
27 Dec 2006 @ 22:52 | Permalink
Oh my.
Sean are you off your meds?
Breastfeeding is not indecent.
If you don’t like it, look away.
To equate an exposed breast with a penis is both sensational and a gross over-exaggeration.
You are precisely the type of right-wing, misogynistic psychopath that keeps me up at night.
Please, by all means, keep announcing this drivel to the populace at large. It will be much easier to identify and avoid those like you.
“…and let this country turn out like Canada”
Only in your wildest dreams would America EVER be half as good as Canada. Then again, I’m slightly partisan; the difference between Sean and myself being that I can recognize that I have biases…oh that and I’m not an ass. (sorry Mary)
28 Dec 2006 @ 00:26 | Permalink
Sean you said “Mary SieverâŚbreastfeeding is sexual when you bring it out in public where everyone can see a human being eating off of sexual private parts kind of like what you see in a wh*re house or a stripclub ok!!!”
Please refer to comment 48, where Mary quite clearly stated “Your ideas, Sean, are not only archaic, but they are uninformed. Since most women do not expose themselves, when nursing their babies, I wonder where your strange ideas come from”
Women, in the most part, do not expose themselves in public and are not displaying sexual parts of their body. Where as urinating in public would be doing so. It is simply a BABY, continuing with an instintice action to feed of it’s Mother the nutrients they NEED – why should we not allow a baby what they need, just because some immature people can’t accept breastfeeding in public.
I totally have to agree with Rick, that you are quite clearly off your meds – have a bit of diplomacy and understanding for others needs rather than enforcing your sexual fantasies upon others.
28 Dec 2006 @ 04:39 | Permalink
hoo boy, Sean is just a troll.
Rick, that’s ok, sometimes you have to use strong language to get a point across, I understand. The donkeys have better manners than Sean.
28 Dec 2006 @ 08:27 | Permalink
28 Dec 2006 @ 12:21 | Permalink
28 Dec 2006 @ 12:38 | Permalink
The Quiver of Arrows is a group of women who believe in having lots of children and home schooling them. They raise their children to become soliders in God’s Army.
Their beliefs seem to be very similar to those you seem to have.
28 Dec 2006 @ 14:27 | Permalink
Funnily enough I’d find it hard picking a private place to breastfeed my child being the male here.
Most of the women I know who breastfeed are in fact very discreet and very covered up about it – they don’t want attention, they don’t want fame.
28 Dec 2006 @ 16:00 | Permalink
“Defenatly”
“a nother”
“it shows your an ignorant”
“sheeps”
Physician heal thyself.
28 Dec 2006 @ 16:39 | Permalink
Yes, those beliefs are similar to mine. But I don’t have time for another list. I already run a bunch.
I would love to have many many children, but it just isn’t going to happen. I am happy with however many I do get. Homeschooling is fun.
28 Dec 2006 @ 16:54 | Permalink
Most of the women I know who breastfeed are in fact very discreet and very covered up about it – they donât want attention, they donât want fame.”ummm Idsuck87…i can think of lots of private exlusive locations to breastfeed your child ok!!! such as a bathroom, such as a car, such as a house, a nursing facility, behind a dumpster, behind a bush or behind a building, the list goes on. Idsuk87…your full of excuses just the same way these lactivist are who cant seem to wanna take responsibilitys for there actions. Lactivist can think of so many private locations to breastfeed there babies, but they refuse not to because they have this whole arrogant thing about them to push-it-in-your-face-boobs attitude. Lactivist will give you a nother excuse of why they dont bottlefeed there babies out in public rather then breast or a nother excuse of why they dont use a blanket to cover themselves up while breastfeeding that child. I do support discretion while public breastfeeding, however why dont we use discretion while urinating-defacating in public by using a blanktet to cover ourselves up is thats the case. If these public breastfeeding on demand mothers refuse to coverup…then i would love to have public breastfeeding be illegal in all 50 states just about anywhere for good moral values of America. Wether or not what these liberal lactvist militants wants to say or not…i strongly feel that public breastfeeding constitutes public indecent exposure nudity which is very rude and impolite
29 Dec 2006 @ 20:03 | Permalink
Bill said “Sounds to me as if some of you who have written on this thread need to reexam your reasons for being opposed to a woman breast feeding. What I read was that your eyes says breast and your mind says sex and then you feel guilty for having sexual thoughts and you want to blame the woman for your sexual thoughts.”.. kudos to you.. Women who is doing the VERY best for her child at that moment by feeding it shouldn’t be punished by being sent off to hide in the corner to feed her baby.
Those who are admonsihing women for breast feeding in public need to go to these bathrooms they are suggesting women go to and stick their own heads in the toilet bowls!!! Do now you need help??
Sean said “Im 100% totally against public breastfeeding because its a filthy habit and its sexually obscene”
My adivce to you buddy is stay out of the public then and you won’t have such a problem seeing half naked women alluring you with their milk filled breasts with babies attached to them….
Sean says “Umm RickâŚany UPSCALE, WOMEN WITH CLASS, MANNERS, DECENCY AND PROPER EITIQUETTE does not public breastfeed just so you know. Any women who is upscale classy with manners would let her upscale class and manners come before that screaming hungry child anyday if the ladys restroom was in use by a nother female customer or she would take it to her car.”
I was brought up with class and so was my daughter and 4 daughter in laws. A woman might let her manners come before feeding a child but no mother on earth that is half a mother would do that before taking care of a child. Are you kidding me? Have you just fallen off the turnip truck?
ANd then you go on about if we don’t want to use the washroom we can go out to our cars. Onviously you are not a parent but a delusional 12 year old trying to act like a mature responsible adult. Cause the way mature adults would act is they would know when a baby is hungry they are hungry right that second not 30 minutes later till you get your groceries paid for or your banking done or driving down the freeways. Not to mention that in the summer time sitting in a car in 100 degree waather is about healthful to a baby as sitting in one when it is 40 below outside. But wait!! According to your illogical comments we still can’t do it that way either cause technically we would still be in the public eye and there you would be again stalking us!!
Do you walk around with a shirt on at ALL times..? Do you ever take it off to wash your car? Mow your lawn? Play ball with your friends? Ride your bike? Your breasts are shown? If you do go in public with out a shirt why is that all right? I call that mightily hypocritical.
You know everyone is entitled to their opinion and I have tried to leave this topic alone although I have chewed through a few skin cells…. but you Sean… are a peace of something.I have been out in the public with my daughter and daughter in laws many many times and they have all (and some still are breastfeed/ing) and not once, unless we were alone in one of our homes have I ever seen any of their breasts while they are nursing.
You need to give up on this topic buddy cause this is one that you will never win.
30 Dec 2006 @ 02:38 | Permalink
I have a friend who served a mission in the S. Pacfic and he told me about how hard it was in the beginning because the females there went topless. He said in that country it was considered sexy to see a woman’s inner thigh. After a short time of seeing women’s breast daily, he no longer considered it wrong.
When he returned to the Sates, he said it was really tough on him to see all these women in swim suits because he saw their thighs.
Perhaps the men who complain about women breast feeding need to rethink why they feel it is sexual. Perhaps it is really their own thinking and not a woman’s breast, nipple or thigh.
30 Dec 2006 @ 11:56 | Permalink
Ok Sally first off ok!!!, im not saying its classy or all right for a male to walk around shirtless while he is playing basketball, riding his bike or washing his car. But to let me make sense in all this that a male can get away with it morely to walk around shirtless rather than if a female walks around shirtless. A male who is shirtless doesnt hold as much higher class of standards like a female ok!!!, a male doesnt have sexual arousing private parts while walking around shirtless, a male doesnt hold as much respect, dignity and self esteem as a female does. A women should have much respect for herself Sally than to walk around shirtless because women dont have to try hard enough to please someone or to arouse them even if they are fully clothed and showing alot less exposure. Once a women walks around without a shirt…then people automatically lose alot of respect for her which shows she lacks alot of self esteem for herself as a women and gives her that reputation of being a sl*t or a wh*re. Men dont have it made like women Sally, men have to try hard enough to please and arouse women even if they walk around without a shirt, Men arent as respected as women and dont hold as much self esteem as women. Like i said before…i dont condone men to walk around shirtless either, but it doesnt look bad if a man walks around shirtless as much as it does a female.
31 Dec 2006 @ 13:18 | Permalink
Sean,
Given the atrociousness of your grammar, punctuation and spelling, I am doubtful of the validity your claim has that you live in a gated community.
Even if despite the signs of illiteracy you show you do indeed live in a gated community of educated professionals, it must be the most select group of professionals ever. I work at a university. Specifically, I work in the faculty of management. Several of my female colleagues breastfeed their babies. In public even. My doctor, who is currently on maternity leave, breastfeeds her babies in public. So did my lawyer’s wife. In fact, the wife of a previous accountant friend of ours not only breastfed her babies in public, their babiesâshock of all shocksâslept in their bed.
There is nothing sexual about a breastfeeding child. Similarly, there is nothing sexual about a breastfeed kitten, fawn, piglet or calf. That is the mode of nourishment God designed for these babies. Period. Breasts were designed to feed babies. If anyone find them sexual, it is a creation they have made of them.
It is absurd to expect a mother to go to a washroom to feed her baby. It is absurd to expect a wailing, hungry baby to wait until his/her mother has made it to the car to eat.
In addition, wanting to breastfeed a baby is non-partisan. It has nothing to with liberalism and will certainly do nothing to make a republic become more like a constitutional monarchy. I know conservatives who breastfeed, I know liberals who breastfeed, I know communists who breastfeed, I know socialists who breastfeed, I know fascists who breastfeed. None of them do it because their party policies dictate it. They do it because it is natural and is what God designed for feeding babies.
Finally, class and manners affects breastfeeding in the Western world only in that a woman shows class and manners by being discreet. Not breastfeeding in public because of what others think of you is not a sign of class. It’s a sign of selfishness: putting one’s own standing in the sight of others ahead of the needs of one’s child.
Normally, I don’t respond to trolls because the easiest way to get rid of them is to ignore them. I could not stand by and keep seeing you spout off illogical nonsense that amounted to nothing more than you running out of feet to fit in your mouth.
31 Dec 2006 @ 14:40 | Permalink
Sean, you live in a gated community?
Hmmm…
Are you absolutely sure that a facility with bars on the windows counts as a ‘gated community’?
Next time you’re in group session you may want to bring up the fact that you’ve been delusional lately.
Maybe they can adjust your meds accordingly.
31 Dec 2006 @ 15:26 | Permalink
Gated communities does not imply wealth. I live in one of the highest income zip codes in one of the 10 largest cities in the US and a gated community means the builder did not have to abide by city regulations when the streets and light poles were installed.
So if these boys get sexually excited by a woman breast feeding a child, I wonder what they do when they watch those shows about natives in Africa. Those women on TV are not even breast feeding, they just don’t consider breast to be a sexual object like young western males like to do.
Perhaps they really are Muslim and expect all women to be covered from head to toe.
Have any women responded that are against breast feeding or is it only young males?
31 Dec 2006 @ 17:28 | Permalink
Your socalled doctor as you say Kim breastfeeds in public, which to me is down right bull**** ok!!!, 99% of upscale well educated white collor women never breastfeed there babies in public, your full of sh*t Kim. That socalled Doctor you know who breastfeeds her babies in public in public is not classy at all Kim and i can recollect that. That socalled doctor you know who is trying to be classy Kim is pretentious and a down right phoney by trying to act classy, but then have the nerve to bring out her filthy bad habits out in public. Kim Seiver…just so you know ok…you cant have it bothways by trying to be classy and then bring out your lowclass trashy behaviour out in public where everyone can see. Thats a down right oxymoron Kim, you cant just say “oh i think i’m gonna play the role of a well respected upscale classy person but then have the nerve to act like a lowclass trash by public breastfeeding”. Kim…you dont get it now do you??, Kim…that would be like me for example walking into a upscale classy country club full of well dressed customers in suits and ties while i’m the only person in there wearing jeans and a tshirt dressed like a Harley Davidson Hells Angels caractor. Kim…your so educated and socalled classy eh!!!why dont you walk into a upscale classy country club and try breastfeeding your babys in front of those type of people and see how they would react to that while they are looking at you, pointing and making jokes with your lowclass trashy behaviour. Those socalled colleauges you talk about who breastfeed in public, arent really upscale classy, trust me Kim there not. These are a bunch of phoney pretentious people trying to be something there not and they just dont get it. Your socalled Colleauges must obviously belong in the LOWCLASS status, because i can rest assure you on this Kim that no decent, well respected women with class and decency who is educated would breastfeed there babies in public. Just to make my point clear to you Kim is that your either upscale classy or your not ok!!!, you cannot play both sides of the fence. Your a socalled Faculty of managment, and if your insinuating that you and your socalled colleauges are socalled upscale classy Kim but then turn around and breastfeed in public..!!, i would have to say that YOUR AND YOUR SOCALLED COLLEAUGES HAVE JUST LOST THERE UPSCALE CLASS STATUS. Upscale class is all about being well mannered and being decent Kim just to let you know, and when you breastfeed in public…you automatically give yourself away as being a sl*t trash and automatically have thrown your upscale classyness right out the window. No one will ever look at you the same Kim once you breastfeed in public. You CANNOT lie to yourself and your SOCALLED maturnatity doctor cannot lie to herself by thinking shes a upscale decent, classy person but then go and do other lowclass trashy bevaiours like breastfeeding in public. Kim…you, your socalled maturnatity doctor and your socalled classy colleauges are all a bunch of phoney fakes and a bunch of pretentious people trying to be something there not by acting upscale classy. When you are a Doctor but then breastfeed in public…you have made your image really look bad and discraceful, plus all the upscale classy people around you look bad. REAL Upscale classy people set a higher standard Kim ok!!! And when they see some indecent inappropriate behaviour in there enviroment like either a expensive classy respected restaurant or a country club, they automatically look down at the nose of that person and shun away from them and no longer look at them the same way they used to because upscale classy people have a reputation and set good high standards for there communitys. Public breastfeeding in a upscale classy restaurant kim!!!, theres something wrong with that picture because those two Kim DO NOT go hand and hand and i’m sorry. You cant have it bothways Kim, your either upscale classy or your not. Kim…your a fake, phoney and a lier, trying to pretend to be classy but then do some of the lowclass behavious that arent acceptable in a upscale community like breastfeeding in public, that like i said already is a oxymoron. Real classy upscale people have more shame, dignity and class then to public breastfeed there babies. An order to be upscale classy Kim, you have to have been taught proper manners and proper etiquette when you are a kid from a good rich proper upbringing by keeping your elbows off the table, asking to be excused from the dinner table and not breastfeeding in public. Breastfeeding in public shows you werent raised the right way from a decent family Kim, more then likely the parents were trash for not educating you of not breastfeeding in public. Having upscale class means having manners
31 Dec 2006 @ 17:51 | Permalink
For those who do not seem able to do the reasearch themselves, I am male.
31 Dec 2006 @ 18:01 | Permalink
Kim…oh yes there is something sexual about breastfeeding your child when its out in public ok!!!, boy you are down right ignorant arent you Kim??. Urinating-defacating are natural bodily functions too kim just like breastfeeding, thats like me saying “oh theres nothing sexual about pulling my penis out in public in front of a bunch of innocent children just so i can urinate in a jar out in public”. Kim…we are civilized intelligent human beings than to be doing something down right ignorant and primative like breastfeeding in public. We are human beins Kim, not kittens, not calf or any other uncivilized animal to just breastfeed out in public and not show some shame or decency. Your f**ked logic Kim to put us in the same catogory as kittens, calfs or other uncivilized animals who breastfeed openly is why we will lose a civilized society with no concept of manners, being civilized and classy. Go gave us a brain to understand Kim that there is a certain line you just dont cross when it comes to bringing out your bodily functions out on the opening where everyone can see. Thats what makes us alot different than animals because we as humans have a intellect understanding that we just dont do something that primative where people can see how cheap and lowclass we are. Animals can get away with breastfeeding in public because there animals Kim, there ignorant savages who are less smarter than human beings that dont understand shame and feeling a sense of guilt to breastfeed openly. If a women wants to act like a uncivilized ignorant animal to breastfeed in public, rather than acting like a normal, decent civilized human being, than maybe that animal needs to wear clothes to cover herself up for the sake of decency and embarrasments. For you to compare us to Kittens and other animals Kim…that is down right ignorant, abcurred and down right retarded, you have no class Kim. We are not a bunch of ignorant savages Kim…wheres your class??. Animals can get away with breastfeeding there litter openly because there animals, there ignorant less intelligent than humans and dont get it when it comes to shame, embarrasment and feeling awkward
31 Dec 2006 @ 18:23 | Permalink
Sean’s lack of education and finesse is very apparent and there is no point in arguing with an ignoramus.
31 Dec 2006 @ 18:32 | Permalink
Yeah Kim, and God gave us a penis designed for sexual intercourse and to urinate, so does that mean!!! we should make public sex legal and make it legal to urinate in public??. This Abcurred comment you made Kim “There is nothing sexual about a breastfeeding child.”, thats like saying “oh theres nothing sexual about two couples having sex out in public while a female is latched onto a guys penis”. Kim…it is 100%sexual indecent exposure watching a nother human being eat off of sexual private parts such as breast kind of like you would expect to see in a wh*re house or a stripclub. This kind of dirty, lewd filthy behaviour is is Rrated Kim, especially if there maybe innocent children around to witnesses it and get a dirty mind off of it. Public breastfeeding does become an act of p*dophileness and sexual molestations depending how long you are breastfeeding that child if he or she has reached over the age limit where they can drink from a bottle or a cup. Public breastfeeding is a primative act and continues to be a violation of the babies civil rights. Its an incestuous relationship with mothers leading to a moral decay in our society. Women enjoy an erotic experience that imposes oral gratification on innocent babies after birth. These breastfeeding lactivist militants reprehensible behaviour teaches children illicit sex, subsequenly manifesting addiction to promiscuity
31 Dec 2006 @ 18:46 | Permalink
31 Dec 2006 @ 19:02 | Permalink
31 Dec 2006 @ 19:05 | Permalink
“99% of upscale upperclass citizens never breastfeed there [sic] babies in public”
I’d like a citation on that study, please. Also please be kind enough to define ‘upperclass’ and ‘upscale’.
FYI:
your – a form of the possessive case of ‘you’; used as an attributive adjective
you’re – contraction of ‘you are’
Until you understand the difference of the two above terms, please don’t include yourself in the group of ‘We as intelligent civilized human beings’.
1 Jan 2007 @ 00:53 | Permalink
Well, we also live in a community surrounded by Lawyers, Doctors,Dentists, School Principal, etc..and we have all Breastfed our children in public. Myself included. However, most of the time people wouldn’t even have known that I was breastfeeding at all.. And I do consider myself to be classy, and everything else that you consider to be someone who wouldn’t. The only thing degrading about breastfeeding, is that people like you (Sean) would expect women, like myself, to go and hide in a bathroom stall, or the car, and feel like I, or my children, (who I felt I was doing the best thing for) would feel like we were below anyone else in the world. There is absolutly nothing wrong with breastfeeding in public. The only thing wrong here is you, Sean, very sick and wrong!!
1 Jan 2007 @ 00:55 | Permalink
Sean I am going to not bother replying to your ignorance on this topic anymore as it will only pump you up in your ignorance more but I will say 2 things. I was in NYC a few years ago and had occasion to have lunch on Fifth Avenue in Saks. I also had the occasion to have dinner at Tavern on the Green was is a very high class 5 star restaurant. Both places had women dressed in designer clothes and wearing shoes that probably cost me a year’s salary. And at both places I saw women that had babies that they were breastfed.
I can’t think of a more classy or upscale place then these 2 and yet here were women doing what you deemed undone.
The second thing I want to say is one day you will grow up Sean and will meet a woman that you want to get close to and you will make the mistake of spewing off your nonsense. She will knock your head off and that day will be a great day full of rejoicing in the land of womanhood!
Good luck in the rest of your life Sean… at the rate you are going you certainly are going to need all the help you can get.
1 Jan 2007 @ 01:31 | Permalink
1 Jan 2007 @ 13:46 | Permalink
1. let me define this right, to be upperclass, you must wear nice expensive 3 peice Armani suits with a fancy Lepel. and for a women, she must dress in a nice business outfit with a nice blouse, a nice matching slacks to match that pinstripe jacket. 2. showing class means not wearing noticeable tattoos or body peircings 3. driving an expensive Bently, driving a Mercedes, driving a Rolls Royce, driving a Lincoln Continental, driving a Limo, driving a Jaguar or a BMW with leather interior seatings. 4. Living in a gated community where all your neighbors are doctors, lawyers, CEOs, school principles, Airline Pilots, School Board members, civil engineers, Arcitechs, real estate agents, scientist, astronouts, developers and city managers. 5. Having class means not painting your house in real bright tacky colors like bright yellow, bright blue, red, peach color or green. Everything must be mainstrean and look the same in a upscale gated neighborhood, all houses must be the same exact color and to all be uniformed, nothing cannot look out of the ordinary. 6. Living in a rich upscale classy gated community means you cannot have basketball hoops in your driveway or in the street. You cannot throw tupperware partys, you cannot open garage sales in that type of neighborhood. Also…living in a upscale community, you cannot have boat trailors park in front of your driveway because that looks just as tacky and a eyesore of breastfeeding in a public countryclub. You cannot mow your own lawn with your own lawn mower in that type of neighborhood, a landscaper should be contacted. You cannot have more than 4 vehicles parked in front of your house. You cannot have Xmas lights outside your house all year round because that looks tacky and an eyesore for that type of neighborhood. You cannot have large exposed attennas installed outside your house such as CB or TV attenna’s. You cannot have your garage door open no more than 15 minutes, garage doors must remain closed at all times in those type of neighborhoods to show class. 7. Having class means you cannot go up to someones door and automatically intruduce yourself to that new neighbor who just moved in like you know them. Showing class and manners means keeping lowkey and keeping to yourself in a upscale neighborhood Showing class and manners in a upscale gated community means not going door to door to make freinds with every neighbor. Showing class in a upscale neighborhood means minding your own business as a sign of respect and dignity. 8. Having class means not having abortions, not having sex outside of marraiges, not having children out of wedlock. Having class and decency means not taking sex education in schools. Having class as a women means she must be less exposed by not showing much cleavage, not exposing her breast out in public, not using foul language, and keeping your elbows off the table. Having class means asking to be excused from the dinner table. keeping your napkin on your lap at the dinner table. Showing class and manners as a women is that she must wear nice expensive dresses and nice expensive skirts with bluses like shes working in a office. 9. As a women who must show class and manners…she must stay mainstream like all classy upscale women by not public breastfeeding anywhere. Public breastfeeding is about the lowest form of blue color trailor trash as you can get. Public breastfeeding and upscale classyness DO NOT GO TOGETHER, they dont match. A upscale classy women who wants to show politeness, manners and respect to her fellow countryclub customers, must take that screaming hungry child in the bathroom to be breastfed where its out of the way. A upscale classy women can also breastfeed her baby in a car if she declines using a bathroom, or a nursing facility while out in public. Only ignorant stupid, uneducated trailor trash with no manners public breastfeeds in restaurants because they dont know anybetter or have a clue about what etiquette, manners and class is. Public breastfeeding shows your true ignorance and makes you no different than a monkey with primative lowclass values. Public breastfeeding goes beyond mainstream upscale classyness, because to keep everything mainstream in a classy way, everything must look the same and up to standards and well uniformed. Having Cavier, fillet minone, drinking expensive wines, experiencing wine tasting, traveling to Europe, or the bahama’s shows you have class. Smoking a fancy cuban cigar and drinking Martinis shows you have class. Having class and manners means not working in blue color jobs like factorys, refinerys, Cal Trans, being homeless,and shopping at the Goodwill. Having class and manners means not working as a construction worker, a road worker, working as a plumber or an apprentice. Having class and manners means owning your own jet, going to church every Sunday. Having class and manners means wearing a suit to the grocery store, wearing a suit and tie in an airplane, wearing a suit and tie to a sporting event and eating escargo
1 Jan 2007 @ 14:59 | Permalink
I canât think of a more classy or upscale place then these 2 and yet here were women doing what you deemed undone.” Umm Sally…do not bull**** me and lie to me ok…public breastfeeding lowclass trailor trashes dont go into those types of places likes Saks Fith avenue ok. Lowclass trailor trash who public breastfeed would feel out of place and unwelcomed going into Saks Fith avenue Sally and you know it as well as i do. Saly…those so-called classy upscale women who you saw wearing desighner clothes and wearing shoes that cost a year, were not at all at the slightes upscale classy ok!!!. These are PRETENTIOUS, LOWCLASS TRASH FAKES trying to be classy and well mannered which they are not. These are PHONEYS Sally trying to be something there not ok!!!. So do not sit here with your abcurred nonsense by telling me you saw some so-called classy women breastfeeding in public because thats a lie and thats bull**** because no real classy women breastfeeds her child in public. Sally…your either upscale classy or your not, you cant be both and have it bothways to say “well i think i’m gonna act as a classy person but then do all the lowclass bad habits”. It doesnt work that way Sally, public breastfeeding in a upscale restaurant sets off a bad image to the upscale classy enviroments and plus gives it a bad reputation of making the place runned down full of trash where all classy people may not wanna go once they find how bad that image is. Public breastfeeding in a upscale restaurant undermines the whole integrity of being classy. Sally to put in blunly,if your insinuating that your classy and upscale but then tell me you saw two women breastfeeding in Saks Fith Avenue, tells me your a LIAR, A PRETENTIOUS PHONEY AND LOWCLASS TRASH. When i see a women public breastfeeding, i call them as i see them which makes them 100% trashy and nothing classy about that filthy dirty behaviour. From what you told me Sally about those two so-called women breastfeeding at Saks…would be like if i went to the Culinary Arts Academy in San Francisco and saw two men dressed as Hells Angels in a jeans and harley tshirt while everyone is mainstream wearing there expensive suits for example. Sally i know who is pretentious or not and i can spot a phoney from a block away who is trying to be classy and fit in. Public breastfeeding mothers do not fit in with the upscale classy customers nore do they feel welcomed, because upscale classy people do not socially accept public breastfeeding as a social norm. Theres a place for that kind of behaviour Sally and thats in the lowclass, welfare blue color range which they socially allow breastfeeding in public in that type of enviroment
1 Jan 2007 @ 15:30 | Permalink
1 Jan 2007 @ 15:39 | Permalink
Sean, it’s obvious you are the one lacking literacy and class.
But we don’t need to reiterate the obvious. He is behaving like an idiot (and I don’t say this lightly) so everyone, let’s just leave him to his inane diatribe.
1 Jan 2007 @ 15:45 | Permalink
“Studys have shown at the University of Yale that the only people who public breastfed there babies without discretion all belonged in the lowerclass group”
Citation please.
Preferrably using less than seven thousand words.
1 Jan 2007 @ 22:52 | Permalink
He can’t cite any studies because there aren’t any. They are a product of his fertile imagination (whoops, did I say “fertile”? Surely that is more sexual in nature than breastfeeding!). Actually, with his vitriolic diatribe against breastfeeding mothers it is quite apparent he suffers from unresolved issues in relation to his mother. Anyone who spends so much effort and time berating mothers, especially nursing mothers illustrates a lack of love and bonding in his/her own life.
Besides that there is no “University of Yale” only Yale University. And the plural of “Study” is “Studies” not “Studys”.
I could go on and on, but you get the point.
2 Jan 2007 @ 07:07 | Permalink
Sean said: “Public breastfeeding is a primative act and continues to be a violation of the babies civil rights. Its an incestuous relationship with mothers leading to a moral decay in our society. Women enjoy an erotic experience that imposes oral gratification on innocent babies after birth. These breastfeeding lactivist militants reprehensible behaviour teaches children illicit sex, subsequenly manifesting addiction to promiscuity”
Should we take a vote to on who thinks Sean was breastfeed as a baby or not?
By the, I am married to a lawyer and Sean is not correct in most of his comments.
2 Jan 2007 @ 11:06 | Permalink
Should we take a vote to on who thinks Sean was breastfeed as a baby or not?
By the, I am married to a lawyer and Sean is not correct in most of his comments.” George…i was breastfed as a child ok!!!, its just my mom had enough class and manners to breastfed me in a private location like a bathroom or a car while out in public. If your wife is married to a Lawyer George, then she ought to have enough upscale class and decency than to public breastfeed. Statistics shows that the number of white collor workers such as your lawyers and doctors all belonged in the upscale class status range. George…my mom is a lawyer and my dad is a doctor for your information, i go to the countryclubs with them for a night out and i rarely never see a upscale well to do women in a countryclub i go to breastfeed her baby there theres people around. Most of the time the women in there who bring babies along to the countryclub will take there screaming hungry child inside a bathroom to show respect and class to the customers in the countryclub, or take it to her car. Being upscale classy George means being polite to others and showing respect for others, and if you public breastfeed, you are not being polite to others and you are being disrespectful. You support public breasfeeding George?? because if you do, you certainatly do not belong in the same neighborhood i do. Women who wanna public breastfeed should join in with all the lowclass riftraft bumbs because thats the type of lowclass people that accept that as a norm. I highly doubt it George that your wife is a lawyer, because if she was, you would have class too. Classy upscale people never breastfeed there babies in public and thats going by a scientific study. Its usually the ignorant, lowclass trailor trash sl*ts and wh*res who do that attrocious revolting beaviour. Classy women i know who bring there babies in countryclubs who wanna nurse in public, always comes prepared with a babybottle with pumped breastmilk inside of it, rather than using exposed breast.
2 Jan 2007 @ 16:26 | Permalink
“Statistics shows that the number of white collor workers such as your lawyers and doctors all belonged in the upscale class status range.”
Please provide a citation for these statistics.
2 Jan 2007 @ 16:30 | Permalink
“i rarely never see a upscale well to do women in a countryclub i go to breastfeed her baby”
Oh, so you do see women breastfeeding at the country club then? After all, rarely never seeing them is the same as seeing them.
You know, Sean, one day after you’ve finished puberty and moved away from home you will experience the world and realise that the little experience you’ve had in your tiny neighbourhood is not reflective of the rest of the world.
2 Jan 2007 @ 16:32 | Permalink
Sean
If your parents are in the medical and law fields then you should have more manners and information than you show here. I would also assume you had more education than you exhibit as well. Your spelling is “atrocious” not “attrocious”, “wanna” is not a word; you seem to have problems using proper punctuation, you cannot spell “their” correctly (over and over again). There and their are two different terms entirely. “countryclubs” are two SEPERATE words: “country clubs”. I am surprised your mother would breastfeed you in such an unsanitary location as a washroom. As a doctor, your father should enlighten her on this. I highly doubt your parents have such education; you would think they would teach their son better. There is a saying you might like to take to heart “It’s better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are a fool than to open it and prove them right.”
2 Jan 2007 @ 16:40 | Permalink
2 Jan 2007 @ 16:48 | Permalink
2 Jan 2007 @ 16:58 | Permalink
Sean,
I was curious as to your approximate age and what part of the world you are writing from? (Be as specific with your location as you are comfortable with.) Also, are you a member of the LDS church? Finally, how did you find this blog?
2 Jan 2007 @ 19:31 | Permalink
Besides that there is no âUniversity of Yaleâ only Yale University. And the plural of âStudyâ is âStudiesâ not âStudysâ.
I could go on and on, but you get the point.” Mary…i never said i had anything against breastfeeding mothers now did i?. I see a communication gap here Mary, see you seem to have it in your head that just because i dont condone public indecent exposure such as public breastfeeding that i would automatically include breastfeeding in general in any private location. You wrong Mary, that sounds very sexist of you, i dont mind breastfeeding mothers no differently than i mind a couple having sex or a male urinating-defacting just as long as its a private exclusive matter to show some respect of others. This whole issue isnt about just breastfeeding Mary, this whole issue is about sexual indecent exposure. When you bring a baby out in public to have him or her feed off your sexual private parts where everyone can see, then it no longer becomes a private matter between the mother and child. It becomes shared with the rest of the public which makes it an irresponsible behaviour, because then breastfeeding mothers can say “oh if you dont like the sight of breast, then dont look, its none of your business”. Well see Mary…when you bring sexual bodily functions out in the opening where everyone can see, then obviously people will look and stare, and its pretty much making it everyones business since its pushed in my face. To bring breastfeeding in public places is a very sexually perverted action that a mother should take into account and not have the rest of the public share her irresponsibilitys. She is nothing more but to blame for herself since she refuses to take responsibilitys for her own actions to take it somewhere private between her and her child. The reason why public breastfeeding is a lowclass sexual act is because a human being such as a baby is eating off of sexual private parts which is very pornographical of what you would expect to see in either a wh*re house or a strip club. This kind of lewd conduct action is very R rated when done in public where there maybe innocent children around to see this dirty sexual act so they can get dirty minds of being aroused by this. When you choose to act like a wh*re and a sl*t, we as restuarant-store customers are not to be held accountable for your irresponsible actions of us being accused as perverts. Mary…to say that i dont like breastfeeding mothers just because i dont like public indecent exposure is showing me that your justifying sexism on the issue because public breastfeeding is mainly based on a female genger. What if i were a women Mary and i have the same veiws as i do now…are you gonna say that “oh you dont like breastfeeding mother” or would you call me a hyprocrit?. The issue like i already said Mary isnt about breastfeeding, its about indecent exposure which you as many feminist have turned into a sexist issue thing.
2 Jan 2007 @ 20:58 | Permalink
2 Jan 2007 @ 21:10 | Permalink
“I was curious as to your approximate age and what part of the world you are writing from? (Be as specific with your location as you are comfortable with.) Also, are you a member of the LDS church? Finally, how did you find this blog?” Mtnnomad…i am from Fairfield California, i’m 19 years of age and how i found this blod is because i was doing a little searching on this issue. I’m a ultra right wing conservative and i like to debate on this issue on public breastfeeding. I am a Catholic with conservative veiws, i would do anything to see public breastfeeding be illegal in all 50 states if we can get enough conservative republicans in the political realm like electing more conservative senators, electing a good strong Republican in the Whitehouse like either Newt Gingrich or Ambassodor Allan Keys who is ultra right wing conservative. There is about roughly 200.000 petitions that has been signed in the Republican convention to bann public breastfeeding just about anywhere in all 50 states. This whole public breastfeeding issue isnt about the hungry screaming child, this has become a sexism feminist issue thing which society 40 years ago has abandoned common sense like decency and manners to let womens rights thing erode our moral values. For 37 years ago, women had rights to destroy this country like having rights to murder the unborn child, having rights to public indecent exposure such as public breastfeeding, and divorces. The ideal traditional women is what we dont have a problem with, its the feminist womens rights movement that we dont agree with that has destroyed the power and respect for all women when there was a time that women wore highheels and a dress. Feminism is a great evil in our society that the Catholic church really opposes. When you go back to the era’s of the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s, women were alot more respected and had more power than they do now. The ideal traditional breastfeeding mother was married and stayed at home to breastfeed her baby as a sign of respect and honor for all women. Breastfeeding in public was never really an issue in those days considering that women back then had dignity, shame, pride and respect for themselves as women. Back in the 1930s, society was alot more civilized than it is now
2 Jan 2007 @ 21:28 | Permalink
Sean – Your writtings make about as much sense as cleaning a toilet with your tongue would make the toilet bowl sanitary.
Perhaps your mother did not breast feed you, she let you lick a toliet bowl instead. Your mind and thoughts are in the toilet bowl and you need to flush.
2 Jan 2007 @ 21:30 | Permalink
“how i found this [blog] is because i was doing a little searching on this issue”
What he means is he was looking for places discussing public breastfeeding where he could spout his views. In other words, trolling. This is not the only place he has repeated the same thing, but it is the only place where people have responded, so he keeps coming back to repeat himself and cause the page to scroll and scroll and scroll and…
2 Jan 2007 @ 21:46 | Permalink
Sean,
Do you comment anywhere else? If so, where?
Is public breastfeeding your central issue or one of many issues that you are a soldier for?
2 Jan 2007 @ 21:51 | Permalink
Do you comment anywhere else? If so, where?
Is public breastfeeding your central issue or one of many issues that you are a soldier for?” well i can say this is that i’m not a one trick pony that sticks to one issue to debate on. I debate on other topics too like the war in Iraq, abortions, birth control, immagration control so on and so fourth. I do comment in other blogs about this issue on public breastfeeding, not just this one. I’m with the coalition of traditional values which is a highly conservative organization with lots of Catholics and evangelicals
2 Jan 2007 @ 22:49 | Permalink
Perhaps your mother did not breast feed you, she let you lick a toliet bowl instead. Your mind and thoughts are in the toilet bowl and you need to flush.” George…you can sit here an knock peoples intellect all you want to ok…i never said i was smart, i never tried and acted like an intellectual, nore am i stupid either. George…your the one who is resorting to your liberal ad-hominem attacks ok!!!, because someone doesnt agree with you that you have to resort to insults. I just wanna say something George ok…i may not be in Harvard or Yale as of now, but i sure in the hell make alot more sense than some of these liberal pin headed anti-war geeks and prochoicers who are in Yale or harvard ok!!!. George…before you resort to your silly little immature ad-hominem attack insults because you have ran out of some arguements to refute mine, then maybe you need to take time and rethink of how stupid YOU have sounded by not using critcle thinking on this whole public breastfeeding issue. Again George and i dont wanna repeat myself again because obviously this doesnt seem to sink into your liberal pinheaded brain, the whole issue isnt about a screaming hungry child ok. This whole issue is about feminism, sexism of how they demand there precious rights to be public indecent exposed as a push-it-in-your-face attitude. Its time that we as a society needs to wakeup and stop letting this whole womens rights POLITICAL CORRECTNESS nonesense erode common sense of not making sexual public indecent exposure a social norm for our society. The womens rights movement is a big evil destroyer in our society that the Catholic church including God is against it ok. Feminism has eroded the traditional values for all women to less empower them by bringing there levels down to the same as men. The culture of feminism is the devils work, i dont like feminism, i think feminism has wained out and lessened all respects for women
2 Jan 2007 @ 23:13 | Permalink
I honestly can’t imagine a better representiative than Sean for any ultra-right wing party.
I can only hope that with many more representatives such as Sean, these parties can be seen in the light which they so richly deserve.
2 Jan 2007 @ 23:54 | Permalink
“your the one who is resorting to your liberal ad-hominem attacks ok!!!, because someone doesnt agree with you that you have to resort to insults.”
You’re kidding right, Sean? Reread your comments on this thread to see examples of ad hominem attacks.
3 Jan 2007 @ 06:56 | Permalink
Sean said: “GeorgeâŚyour the one who is resorting to your liberal ad-hominem attacks ok!!!,”
Let’s get one thing straight and that is I am a right wing Liberatian with very specfic liberal views.
Sean – Wow you a Catholic!!!!! Your views do not fit into the Catholic religion at all.
Most public mddle/high schools have after school classes for students that need help learning how to read, write and think for themselves. You should join the one at your school unless of course you attend a private school and then your lack of knowledge and social graces becomes understandable.
3 Jan 2007 @ 16:22 | Permalink
understandable.”
Umm George…i came in here to debate, not for an insult word exchange match ok. Your the one who cant seem to read and write, you type like you belong in the special education with your poor vocabulary skills. You wanna make this a personal attack on how people cant read and write??sure we can go there George if you want, but you have already proven to me that your a retard anyways who cant even refute any arugements of mine anyways. I have Nephews George who have 10 times more intellects than you ever wish to imagine having in your whole entire life. Your a half wit George, the things you say are about a cut above a retard, i might as well be arguing with someone who is in the second grage, at least they have more critcle thinking than you do. I came in here to debate on public breastfeeding , but obviously you dont like it George that my oppinions differ than yours so you wanna make this a reading writing personal insult of who has better writing skills Eh??. George…well i can only say maybe a couple things but no offence, after trying to refute your arguements for the last 2 days, i cant tell you have poor education skills. Makes me wonder George if you havent been droped on your head as a child when you were first born or was deprived oxygen as an infant. Public breastfeeding in my oppinion is lowclass, trashy behaviour so get over it George and learn to accept the truth on both ends. To sit here and tell me your married to a Lawyer!!! George…i highly doubt that any lawyer would wanna have anything to do with a lowlife blog junkie loser like you even a blue collor factory worker at that
3 Jan 2007 @ 23:05 | Permalink
“i came in here to debate”
Sean, if you truly came here to debate, you would have avoided all the continuous ad hominem attacks, avoided repeating yourself in every comment, avoided bringing up false studies without citation and actually addressed points people raised.
4 Jan 2007 @ 06:55 | Permalink
Sean – Your writing skills remind me of young men (under 25) who apply for work and have the communication skills of an idiot.
You need to go back to school and learn instead of sleeping off all the drugs you must take.
Can you be a skin head as well as a Catholic? Your writings sound like you are a skin head.
You claim you want to debate yet you have nothing worth debating. Come back after you have finished school and have something intelligent to write.
4 Jan 2007 @ 16:37 | Permalink
4 Jan 2007 @ 17:51 | Permalink
Hey Sean and George,
Do you think you two can take the sandbox fight somewhere else? It’s bad enough this post has been diluted and torn apart with vitriol. We don’t need it hijacked with a peeing contest.
4 Jan 2007 @ 22:00 | Permalink
Sean – Do a search for George and then write any kind of tirade you think has any merit to it on that thread.
I would like an answer to the question “Are you a Skin Head?”
Also – Are you a member of the Quiver of Arrows group?
5 Jan 2007 @ 08:52 | Permalink
8 Jan 2007 @ 15:37 | Permalink
think of how civilized our society would be if BLACKS VOTING were illegal in all 50 states. Iâm with the Republican convention and signed petitions to have BLACK VOTING banned
Wow what a big change a couple of word replacements have, no?
It’s almost like we never left the fifties…
8 Jan 2007 @ 16:11 | Permalink
We’ve left them, Rick. It’s Sean who’s stuck in a time warp. Well, stuck in something anyway.
8 Jan 2007 @ 16:46 | Permalink
8 Jan 2007 @ 17:31 | Permalink
Bill said: I believe women should be allowed the privillege of breast feeding thier children whenever the child is hungry or needs nursing. It is a natural part of being a baby and there is nothing wrong or sexual about a woman breast feeding.
Anyone who dares to disagree with me on this topic is a prude.
If you are a PRUDE, then show me the passage of scripture where this is bad.”
umm Bill a womens body is beautiful. we should have the right to go topless in public just as a man has. However there are signs posted in restaurants that say “no shoes, no shirts, no service”, an airline or any restaurant has the right to refuse services to anyone who isnt covered up, including breastfeeding mothers. The same thing also applys when you come into someones house, you have to show some respect and manners as well as entering a public restaurant or a airplane. When you come into someones house as a guest and not wearing a shirt or just plain breastfeeding openly where everyone can be subjected to it, the owner of the house has every right to refuse services to them as guest when they are doing something inappropriatly. Thats how it is when you come into someones house Bill “my house, my rules”, should we sue a owner of the home to refusing a party guest for breastfeeding her child openly at a party??. I dont think so, people are happily flanting there breast and ignoring decency and common curtiousy for one a nothers compforts
8 Jan 2007 @ 21:06 | Permalink
Sean said: “we should have the right to go topless in public just as a man has.”
Are you a woman Sean?
8 Jan 2007 @ 21:20 | Permalink
Anyone who dares to disagree with me on this topic is a prude.
If you are a PRUDE, then show me the passage of scripture where this is bad.
Bill urinating-defacating is also a natural thing too just like breastfeeding. But i wouldnt recommend it in public, so does that make me a prude??, does not condoning sex in public make me a prude even though its a natural sexual act as breastfeeding your child in public??. Bill…a mother who breastfeeds needs to set good examples for herself by taking it somewhere privatly like either a bathroom or a car to set a good example for the child too as well so he will be happy. When people at a restaurant are trying to eat Bill, we as the customers are always right and do not want to see some OVER SIZED HUMAN SUCTION CUP cup latched onto some womens sexual private parts like as if we are watching a R rated film because that **** is gross and unsanitary. Public breastfeeding is part of a liberal free society bill, and a free liberal society is teaching people to be rude and impolite which it doesnt seem to occur to you because all your thinking about is your precious rights for women over common curtiousy and respect for me and for others. Indecent exposure is the issue here that nursing mothers readily flaunt and ignore, not so much about breastfeeding. They think that just because they have babies latched onto there sexual private parts that it makes them the center of the world an order to give herself and that child a title of embarrasment and discrace
8 Jan 2007 @ 21:31 | Permalink
Sean, youâre one sick puppy, and a nasty, compulsive liar as well.
Youâve been spewing your supposed âCatholic, ultra right wing conservativeâ views over every forum you can get onto across the Internet. You have insulted most of the women youâve come in contact with, youâve claimed to be people you arenât and in general caused havoc with your disgusting comments, which usually end up with you spewing comparisons between breastfeeding and masturbation.
Some forum moderators have had to censure you or shut down the topic because of your infantile ranting and raving. This doesnât seem to stop you, because youâre a sick individual who will always find still another forum where you can continue to spew your anti-female insults.
Some of us question things that we read on the âNet, and youâve recently been put âunder the magnifying glassâ so to speak. Over on Buzznet, youâve been using the very appropriate name of âBatonclubâ on their QOTD forums (quite fitting your personality, considering your feelings about women), and youâve managed to disgust a number of people there.
http://www.buzznet.com/groups/qotd/forum/topics/5187/
The “Republican petitions” that you describe are a hoax, as others who bothered to check into it have found out. You are a profane and disgusting embarrassment to just about every self-respecting male on the âNet
6 Feb 2007 @ 13:53 | Permalink
My brain is unable to believe what my eyes are seeing. Mary, you have every right to breastfeed your infant. Connor, your problem is what it is, and nothing more. YOU have sexualized women. YOU have a problem, not any woman who decides to breastfeed. If you have diminished woman to the state of a sexual toy, fit for procreation and nothing more, that is YOUR problem. Fortunately, most of the world has moved past that rather Neanderthal ideological framework.
Regardless of what anybody believes, man wrote the Bible (as he has written every extant ideological text known to humanity). It was man who decreed that man was superior to woman. It is presumptuous in the extreme for Man to claim to know what God does or does not intend. This is not an ideological argument, it is one of practicality. Infants need nourishment. Women’s mammaries were designed to provide nourishment. It’s that easy.
Somebody used a second-hand smoke argument. That is an erroneous argument — a straw man fallacy. If you smoke in my space, your carcinogens are invading my lungs. I do not have a choice of whether or not to breathe and, quite frankly, you do not have the right to poison me. When a woman is breastfeeding her infant, you do not have to look. In fact, if the mere sight of a naked breast makes you feel aroused to the extent that you begin to feel aroused, perhaps you need to consider what that says about you.
J.W., Ph.D.
19 Feb 2007 @ 20:18 | Permalink
J.W. MacTaggart
Thank you very much for your thoughts! Very concise and true.
20 Feb 2007 @ 05:16 | Permalink
I don’t think it’s entirely fair to say to a man who experiences a sexual feeling when he sees a woman’s breasts that it’s all his fault, and that he should be ashamed for “sexualizing” women. Men are hard-wired to have sexual reactions to women’s bodies. We’re supposed to. We have an indefeasible instinct to react that way. Being subject to human nature doesn’t make men bad. Although I personally approve of public breastfeeding, I don’t think it’s right to cast such aspersions on men who may be made uncomfortable by having sexual feelings provoked in ways they can’t help.
22 Feb 2007 @ 09:23 | Permalink
Breast feeding in public is as innocent as any other form of public nudity (even more so, as it serves a necessity), the perverted is in the mind of the beholder.
31 Mar 2007 @ 09:46 | Permalink