9/11

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What are your thoughts on Canada being hit by one of our own “9/11″‘s? Do you think we are a neutral enough country when it comes to helping others in need that terrorists won’t bother with us peons? Do you think we are powerful enough that we scare other countries away? If we were to get attacked do you think we are sufficiently prepared? Where do you think we would be hit if we were to be attacked? Where are our weakest strategical areas?

50 thoughts on “9/11

  1. I am assuming you mean from terrorists of the Muslim faith. How can you nuetral when their faith is to kill you if you will not join them? How can you be nuetral when they kill they own people because of their religion?

    There is no where to hide.

    Are you suggesting Canada is a powerful country and other countries are afraid of Canada?

    Is anyone afraid of France?

  2. I think the phenomenon is much more an anti-westernization moment than a promotion or defense of Islam. The whole world’s been westernizing for some times and some people want to keep things like they were before the European renaissance.

    As far as Canada? Does it matter if the target is Spain, UK, USA, France or Canada? To the anti-western extremists, it’s all the same thing. I do think taking the war to the terrorist’s home lands, whether or not their gov’ts shelter them makes sense, but the USA lead effort is most poorly prosecuted. Rumsfeld should have been fired in W’s first term. W’s just asleep at the switch on this.

  3. I agree with Steve EM’s analysis. It’s anti-westernisation. And not all Muslims are killers. It’s that sort of generalisation that creates more divisions. There was a time when Christians were viewed this way too.

  4. Islam is about 600 years younger than Christianity. 600 years ago, Christianity had been perveted into a pretty horriable religion by some of its leaders. Is it possible that Islam is going through its Middle ages period now?

  5. George,

    Islam went into a decline around 1200 AD, or about the time Christianity started to come out of its medieval period. It is argued by some that they haven’t yet come out of their medieval period. I think a broad stroke like that is not a complete picture of Islam, and is easy to accept to some, because it gives easy answers to their problems against Islam.

    There are parts of Islam that are pretty accepting of modernity (if you look at the city of Dubai for example, it is a beautiful very modern city that is more attractive than most American cities!), while you still have plenty of locales that are driven more by a flawed interpretation of scripture which ends up deadening the learning of that group.

    It is a false thing that some say that Islam is a corrupted, evil religion. Much can be said against Christianity based on the actions of many Christians throughout the centuries, just as much can be said against Islam based on the actions of many Muslims.

    Broad strokes only help those wishing to score political points. In the end, broad strokes only really serve the wishes of the violent, and not the peacemakers.

  6. Dan – Would you agree that almost all religions are evil if you take the actions of a small number of their members and compare it to your own beliefs?

  7. What are your feelings about the shootings at the Jewish Center in Seattle? I believe I heard he was a Muslim.

    Should his religion be allowed as a defense in a criminal case?

    Would him being a Muslim targeting Jews be a hate crime?

    Should he be tried under the tougher new hate crime laws?

    I would think we all would agree he is insane. Is his religion responsible for his insanity?

  8. George,

    It isn’t the religions that are evil, but the individuals who have a corrupted interpretation of a particular religion that are evil. Islam, for example, is not a terrorist religion (or you would have well over 1 billion terrorists in the world), just like Christianity is not a warmongering religion (even though many wars have been fought in the name of Christianity).

    “What are your feelings about the shootings at the Jewish Center in Seattle? I believe I heard he was a Muslim.”

    This is much like the Muslims that were beaten up just after 9/11. There are stupid people in the world who let their feelings get a hold of them in the wrong way, and they go and do something stupid.

    “Should his religion be allowed as a defense in a criminal case?”

    No.

    “Would him being a Muslim targeting Jews be a hate crime?”

    It doesn’t matter if he were Muslim, but the fact that he targeted a Jew is a hate crime, regardless of his own religion.

    “Should he be tried under the tougher new hate crime laws?”

    What could be tougher than homicide crime laws?

    “I would think we all would agree he is insane. Is his religion responsible for his insanity?”

    I don’t think he is insane, unless you agree with me that all who resort to violence to solve their problems are insane. ;)

  9. Sally –

    Their is a substantial risk factor associated with the large Canadian Muslim living in the Toronto area.

    In fact, earlier this year there was something in the news about a group of terrorists plotting to kill the Canadian PM.

    The RCMP have a special section dedicated to this mission.

  10. George no I am not assuming terrorists are from any particular race or nation. I only made mention of 9/11 terrorist attack as that is the one nearest in proximity to us but it can just as easily be terrorists from United States. I never made the assumption or implications that the threat would come from those of Muslim faith. That wasn’t my question.

    And I asked if other readers thought that we were a powerful enough country that other countries would stay away.

  11. thanks Roland for giving me your thoughts on my question and not on Muslim faith which had nothing to do with my question. As far as the threats on our PM well that was nothing more then irate constituents hehehehehe

  12. I heard on the radio today that the UK has arrested over 2 dozen people who were plotting to blow up airplanes flying between the UK and the USA. I heard they were British citizens (Pakistan origins)and Muslims.

    I also heard the man who shot the 5 Jewish women in Seattle was Muslim.

    The men who killed everyone on 9-11 were Muslim men.

    The subway bombings in London were done Muslim men.

    The train bombings in Spain were done by Muslim men.

    The kidnapping of the Jewish solider was done by Muslim men.

    The rocket attacks on Israel with the killing of women and children is being done by Muslim men.

    There seems to be a lot of Muslim men who are trying to kill as many human beings that are using public transporation as they can. I think they are cowards but that is a different topic.

    Should people of the Muslim faith be allowed to work in Public Transporation with all of these killings taking place?

    If you say yes, then should they be subject to intense background and mental checks compared to people of other faiths that are not trying to kil us?

    Since the vast majority of these murders are committed by Muslim men, should every Muslim looking man be subjected to intense searches before they are allowed to board publice transporation?

    Should white anglo people be exempt for these searches?

    Should the government send undercover agents to search out these murder thugs?

    Should there be special trials and prisons for Mulsim men?

    Should they be denied the right to worship their perverted religion?

    Maybe they should only be allowed to pray facing away from their holy city. Also have to stand to pray and spend the rest of their natural lives naked and managed by female guards.

    If you think Muslims should have all the rights Christians do, why?

    I have no views one way or the other on these topics but I am forming several and wonder what your thoughts might be.

  13. “There seems to be a lot of Muslim men who are trying to kill as many human beings that are using public transporation as they can.”

    Not as many Muslims as those who aren’t.

  14. George.. the Oklahoma City Bombing was done by a Caucasion, Hitler was Caucasion, the Rwanda genocide was done by Africans, Aleksandr Zakharov is a top Russian mafia leader with ties to terrorism, Maurizio Locusta, reputed leader of a Red Brigades terrorist unit is Italian, Mikel Albisu Iriarte top Spanish terrorist.. I could go on and on.. every race has terrorists every country houses terrorists… To lump them only to the Muslims is very unfair and very hateful… not to mention very racist!!

  15. The examples you gave is not a balanced comparison with what the Muslim men are doing. The Muslims are trying to kill us.

    Oklahoma City was directed at the USA Goverment by a very small group of 2. With that being said, they also were not preaching death to us in their churchs. From what I understand the Muslim religion preaches death to non believers.

    Your other examples are not trying to kill us. The difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is often based upon who wins a war.

    Castro for example was considered a freedom fighter by the USA until he took over and announced he was a communist. The USA financed his war before then.

    To point out that it is Muslim men that are trying to kill us is not racist. It is a fact.

    Are all Muslims trying to kill us? The answer is of course not. However, if they attend their mosques and permit their religious leaders to preach hatred and death to us, support this violence with money and will not step forward to stop this maddness, then they are just as guilty as the ones who kill. The ones who murder do not work in a vacuum. They are supported by the Muslim Faithful.

    To be PC and ignore who is trying to kill you is like sticking your head in the sand.

    Be honest – would you feel safer getting on public transit with a Catholic or a Muslim? A Hindu or a Muslim? A non-believer or a Muslim?

    I expect the families of those who were killed in the train and subway blast by Muslims, for the most part no longer trust Muslims.

    The Muslims I know, I would never dream of them killing people yet it is their religion that is the root of all this death.

    Should I be concerned the Muslim I had lunch with today is giving money to kill my love ones? Should I be concerned that they are plotting to kill my children or my wife? My brother’s family?

    Do you think you can be PC and the Muslims will not bomb and kill the people in Canada? Muslims are killing all over the world in the name of Allah.

    I meet a LDS family from the Phillipines that left all they had and fled to the USA because the Muslims are killing non Muslims there.

    Is there another religion that teaches death and hatred like the Muslims do?

  16. “Is there another religion that teaches death and hatred like the Muslims do?”

    Christianity does, see topics on the crusades for further clarification.

  17. The crusades were by the Catholics. The Christian religion of today is not same religion as the Catholic religion during the Crusades.

  18. “Is there another religion that teaches death and hatred like the Muslims do?”

    Christianity does, see topics on George Bush’s devine order to go into Iraq for further clarification.

  19. George,

    This is what Spencer W. Kimball has said in regards to modern warfare.

    In spite of our delight in defining ourselves as modern, and our tendency to think we possess a sophistication that no people in the past ever had — in spite of these things, we are, on the whole, an idolatrous people — a condition repugnant to the Lord.

    We are a warlike people, easily distracted from our assignment of preparing for the coming of the Lord. When enemies rise up, we commit vast resources to the fabrication of gods of stone and steel — ships, planes, missiles, fortifications — and depend on them for protection and deliverance. When threatened, we become antienemy instead of pro-kingdom of God; we train a man in the art of war and call him a patriot, thus, in the manner of Satan’s counterfeit of true patriotism, perverting the Savior’s teaching:

    “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

    “That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 5:44-45).

    We forget that if we are righteous the Lord will either not suffer our enemies to come upon us — and this is the special promise to the inhabitants of the land of the Americas (see 2 Nephi 1:7) — or he will fight our battles for us (Exodus 14:14; D&C 98:37, to name only two references of many). This he is able to do, for as he said at the time of his betrayal, “Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?” (Matthew 26:53). We can imagine what fearsome soldiers they would be. King Jehoshaphat and his people were delivered by such a troop (see 2 Chronicles 20), and when Elish’s life was threatened, he comforted his servant by saying, “Fear not; for they that be with us are more than they that be with them” (2 Kings 6:16). The Lord then opened the eyes of the servant, “And he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha” (vs 17).

    What are we to fear when the Lord is with us? Can we not take the Lord at his word and exercise a particle of faith in him? Our assignment is affirmative: to forsake the things of the world as ends in themselves; to leave off idolatry and press forward in faith; to carry the gospel to our enemies, that they might no longer be our enemies.

    We must leave off the worship of modern-day idols and a reliance on the “arm of flesh,” for the Lord has said to all the world in our day, “I will not spare any that remain in Babylon” (D&C 64:24).

    Muslims are not the enemy we think they are.

  20. Answer these questions.

    Do you remember in 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by?
    a. Superman?
    b. Jay Leno?
    c. Harry Potter?
    d. a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40?

    2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by?
    a. Olga Corbett?
    b. Sitting Bull?
    c. Arnold Schwarzenegger?
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40 ?

    3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:?
    a. Lost Norwegians?
    b. Elvis?
    c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women?
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?

    4. During the 1980’s a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:?
    a. John Dillinger?
    b. The King of Sweden ?
    c. The Boy Scouts?
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?

    5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:?
    a. A pizza delivery boy?
    b. Pee Wee Herman?
    c. Geraldo Rivera?
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?

    6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:?
    a. The Smurfs?
    b. Davey Jones?
    c. The Little Mermaid?
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?

    7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:?
    a. Captain Kidd?
    b. Charles Lindberg?
    c. Mother Teresa?
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?

    8. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:?
    a. Scooby Doo?
    b. The Tooth Fairy and The Sundance Kid?
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?

    9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:?
    a. Richard Simmons?
    b. Grandma Moses?
    c. Michael Jordan?
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?

    10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:?
    a. Mr. Rogers?
    b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill’s women problems?
    c. The World Wrestling Federation?
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?

    11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by:?
    a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd?
    b. The Supreme Court of Florida ?
    c. Mr. Bean?
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?

    12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:?
    a. Enron?
    b. The Lutheran Church ?
    c. The NFL?
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?

    13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:?
    a. Bonnie and Clyde ?
    b. Captain Kangaroo?
    c. Billy Graham?
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?

    Nope, I really don’t see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?

    So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile certain people. They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who are members of the President’s security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winning and former Governor Joe Foss, but leave Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40 alone lest they be guilty of profiling.

  21. Hmmm… in almost every instance you cited the people being harmed were American.

    Maybe there’s just some problem with Americans and not with the groups attacking them…

    Did you know that in 2004, there were 16,137 cases of murder or nonnegligent manslaughter in the United States?

    Almost all of them were perpetrated by Americans on Americans.

    With Americans killing over 16,000 Americans in one year, you’d expect America to take notice.

    Maybe American troops should invade America and do something about it.

    And to think it only took the deaths of about 3000 Americans to get the USA to move troops into Afghanistan…

  22. “Maybe there’s just some problem with Americans and not with the groups attacking them…”

    Yes, of course. It’s always the victim’s fault.

  23. Yeah, rick was over the top on that one. Surprised he didn’t invoke Hitler too.

    Itbugaf,
    I thought you were posting as GeorgeD now? Or is it Rob Osborn or NDBF Gary?

  24. Rick,

    On this occasion I must side with George.
    Your response to his questionnaire is way off base.
    You either do not understand the history of this war or you choose to ignore it.
    It wasn’t only the WTC bombings that precipitated the invasion of Afghanistan.
    You appear to hate Americans and will resort to the same tactics that George uses in attacking the Church. There is no logic to your argument, just emotion.
    I, for one, am fed up with anti-American sentiment. They have every right to focus on their interests as do France, Germany, Russia, and others, who have a lot of economic interests in countries that have brutal dictatorships.
    They can have their policies of appeasement while their countries get bombed, but at least the Americans had the guts to stand up and be counted on this one. More power to them.
    We need to understand the nature of this war and how it can be won. We also need to understand so many other things that make this war different from any other battle ever fought.
    If all we listen to are wacky nuts who spout conspiracy theories, or read the newspapers for our information, or watch the nightly news, then we are misinformed, if not outright lied to.
    This is a black and white issue. There is no middle ground here. We either gets the facts or we get the lies. Period.

  25. “It wasn’t only the WTC bombings that precipitated the invasion of Afghanistan.”

    Right, and why exactly are the US is Iraq again?

    “You either do not understand the history of this war or you choose to ignore it.”

    Larry, Puh-leez.

    My sentiments towards US aggression have nothing to do with the events leading up to the invasion of Afghanistan.

    My opinions are based entirely on the hypocritcal actions of the US in its’ foreign policy.

    I certainly don’t hate America, I just want them to give equal time and consideration to events inside their own borders as well as outside. See Comment#25

    The reason Americans continue to be targeted has everything to do with their attitudes toward the rest of the world and the actions of their government. It is not simply a case of global sour grapes.

  26. Then my question to you is: How is the American attitude towards the rest of the world any different than the Japanese, Russians, Chinese or the Germans? All of them have, and have tried to exercise a dictatorial control over other countries.
    Why does the U.S. come out looking like the bad guy? Their foreign policy has been one to build up their enemies, not destroy them.
    Disasters occur, and which country ALWAYS gives the most.
    The problem is that the haters of the U.S. listen to CBC reporters et al, who love to give ear to despots and dictators, and love to run down U.S. presidents.
    It’s the Canadian way.

  27. I’m sorry Larry, is your argument that the US hasn’t done anything that other countries have done, or that the US is doing things differently than the countries you listed?

    I beleive that the US is not bent on military world domination so much as it uses its’ military to influence (coerce) countries to bend to its’ will.

    It’s a pious invasion, if you will.

    The US is willing to jump into a situation like Iraq given *any* information which would allow then to, but ignore situations that are more demanding of attention like genocides in Africa and East Timor.

    It is with the hypocracy of their governments foreign policy that I seek to point out.

    And to answer the question,”Why does the U.S. come out looking like the bad guy?”, it’s because they claim to be taking the high road in all instances of action, and when other motives are illuminated they can not help but be shown to be acting in bad faith, or perhaps at the least not as on the up-and-up as they would proclaim.

  28. Rick,

    My point was that no one hates the other countries for their foreign policies, so why is the U.S. hated.

    If the U.S. used it’s military to influence countries to it’s will then Chavez would never have made it in Venezuela.
    As for Africa and East Timor, ask the Africans why the Americans aren’t there. In fact ask Kofi Anan, who is African, why they are not there.
    If you paid any attention to Bush’s speech yesterday, and the response from the President of the Sudan, then you would clearly understand.
    As for the U.S. being in Iraq for the oil, that’s a laugh as you point out, Mary.
    There were WMD’s there, there was plenty of contact between Sadam and Al Qaeda, and they were gearing up for more attacks. People can deny all this, but it only points out that the only information they get is from the mainstream press, which showed just how reliable they are in reporting during the last Israeli/Hezbollah conflict.
    They pander to dictators and despots. They grovel like pigs in the mud for them.
    I shouldn’t hold back like this. I really want to let my feelings come out. :>)

  29. “My point was that no one hates the other countries for their foreign policies, so why is the U.S. hated.”

    In this you are wrong. Speak to any European about any other country. There’s plenty of vitriol to go around. =)

    as per:”There were WMD’s there…”

    Where is “there” precisely? =)

  30. CNN is not hampered by the truth. They did make minor mention of it in one newscast i watched.
    However, if CNN is your source for news . . . /endsarcasm

    Follow up with Christopher Hitchens (Vanity Fair) who has been expelled by the left because of what he has written on Iraq.
    Here’s a good article: http://www.slate.com/id/2148995

  31. lol
    Larry, I like you …

    …but maybe it’s the those conspirators slipped lsd into my coffee again.

  32. Steve EM: You asked, “I thought you were posting as GeorgeD now?”

    I don’t know who GeorgeD is. I can’t even remember seeing a comment by GerogeD.

    I don’t switch monikers. I’m not a coward.

  33. ltbugaf said: Steve EM: You asked, “I thought you were posting as GeorgeD now?”

    I don’t know who GeorgeD is. I can’t even remember seeing a comment by GerogeD.

    I assumed he meant me. When the liberal mormons get frustrated they call me Bill and sometimes ltbugaf.

  34. Bill/George,

    What are you talking about? Steve is referring to some other person called GeorgeD. On a completely unrelated note, I’m also asking why you think it’s useful to switch from “Bill” to “George.” Why not just stick with your original name?

  35. ltbugaf – You questions relating to me make no sense, please explain what you mean. It sounds as if you are playing off Mary’s jabs.

    I believe Steve made a typo when he added the D.

    I do remember reading where you would not answer what kind of work you do. Why?

  36. George/Bill

    Jabs? Not jabs. (That is not how I operate, thank you very much). It is very clear to us that you are the same person, Bill and George. For a number of reasons. At least, you use the same computer if you are two people. And your style of responding is pretty mucn identical. So, my guess is, you are the very same person. I highly doubt either of these names are your real name, but that of course doesn’t matter. People are entitled to use psuedonyms. However, when they pretend to be two or more different people, I personally get irritated. Stick with one persona.

  37. Bill/George: Of course you remember reading where I declined your incessant and irrelevant questions about my line of work. But that was while you were using the name “Bill.” What’s amazing is that you’re still trying to continue the same pointless inquiry under your new disguise. Now that you’ve switched to the name “George,” I simply asked why.

    Your claim not to understand that simple question is disingenuous.

    You can answer the question or not answer it–up to you. I just wonder why, when you’re not fooling anyone, you keep the mask on.

  38. Re: #27 and #31—I finally found a comment by this “GeorgeD” person that Steve EM mentioned. It’s on the “Abortion Laws” thread over on Feminist Mormon Housewives.

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