All assets that LDS Inc has ultimately come from tithing and donations. So, it’s dishonest to say that it’s not being funded with tithing funds.

Not true. The funds used for this purpose come from the operation of businesses, and never from tithing.

I guess mormons need to ask themselves whether they want to be a church or a business?

No, that’s a false dilemma. We can be a church that also happens to operate businesses.

If they’re going to be a business, then it shouldn’t be tax-exempt.

The Church’s businesses aren’t tax-exempt. They all pay taxes.

Well, that could be done with a botanical garden as well. Or even better, you could make another BYU salt lake campus.

Yes, a botanical garden is one of the choices that could be made. That’s one of the reasons the Church operates an extensive garden atop the Conference Center as well as a park and a landscaped pedestrian area, all in the same vicinity. On the other hand, the downtown Salt Lake area is probably better off having some businesses to keep it vital. I don’t see how the choice to maintain business space in the area is worse than what you suggest.

It’s kind of funny that you mention a BYU Salt Lake campus, because that’s one of the things the Church is doing in the area, as well as relocating the LDS business college to the area in question.

All money that the “church” has is not the Lord’s money right?

Do you mean that none of the money the Church has is the Lord’s or that some of the money the Church has is not the Lord’s? Your meaning isn’t clear to me. In either case, however, I think everything is the Lord’s. Psalms 24:1 But that doesn’t mean we should never differentiate between categories of money.

Then why should the Lord’s money be used to buy malls?

I’d say, for the reasons the Prophet already gave.

The excuse used for this Mall of Mammon is that it is “to protect the integrity of temple square.” Well, that could be done with a botanical garden as well. Or even better, you could make another BYU salt lake campus.

I guess mormons need to ask themselves whether they want to be a church or a business? If it is going to be a business, then it should issue stock to tithe payers. It should become a retirement fund.

If they’re going to be a business, then it shouldn’t be tax-exempt.

All assets that LDS Inc has ultimately come from tithing and donations. So, it’s dishonest to say that it’s not being funded with tithing funds. All money that the “church” has is not the Lord’s money right? Then why should the Lord’s money be used to buy malls?

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=ff1b6a4430c0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

If the link doesn’t work for you, look up “Why We Do Some of the Things We Do” in the November 1999 Ensign. (And ge ready for rick to dismiss it as “damage control.”)

But here’s the part I’m having trouble with: President Hinckley gives the following as the reason for the purchase of the mall property:

We feel we have a compelling responsibility to protect the environment of the Salt Lake Temple.

But rick says:

If, in fact, they’re just purchasing it to secure the redevelopment of the downtown Salt Lake area, that is something best left to the municipal planners. It is my personal opinion that that is the last thing on their minds…

Now, the reason I’m having trouble with it is that I’ve been frequently and soundly chastised for calling someone a liar on this ‘blog. That isn’t a nice thing to do, I’m told, and it’s inimical to civil conversation. But rick is calling President Hinckley a liar. He says that Hinckley is lying about the motives for this purchase.

So someone please help me understand: Is it OK to call someone a liar, or not?

Churches are not like mutual funds, or investment portfolios. They are not supposed to be managing your tithing and returning a profit, they are supposed to take tithing to support the membership and spread the faith – if that’s in their doctrinal mandate.

This purchase does absolutely nothing for Joe-Member.

If, in fact, they’re just purchasing it to secure the redevelopment of the downtown Salt Lake area, that is something best left to the municipal planners.

It is my personal opinion that that is the last thing on their minds, as I have clearly stated before.

The church has no need for profit generating vehicles since its requirements scale proportionately with the numbers of members it has.

If membership is down, then it has less tithing, but also has less members to support. If membership is up, then they have a proportionally greater source of operating income from the tithing of those members.

Additionally, if the church wanted to remove all suspicions of business-like empire building, all they’d have to do is open up the books to the public.

Nothing clears the air like full disclosure.

They were also made with the thought in mind relative to the wise use of the money (I think of the parable of the talents).

I don’t remember seeing anything that said that the purchase of the property was for investment purposes.

As long as there are members, there will be tithing.

Why does the church need to ‘invest’ any money at all? It should always have a source of income.

Why not spend most of it (every single year) on humanitarian programmes? Investing for returns is what organizations with shareholders do, generally. Members are not, by any stretch of the imagination, shareholders.

Is the church a church or is it a business?

there seems to be some discussion about church tithing used to buy a mall?

What they’re probably referring to is this story: http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=f78676e6ffe0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

No tithing funds were used in this purchase, and none will be used in developing and maintaining the property for commercial uses.

It would amaze me to find that someone is an active member of the church and accuse the leaders of the church of knowingly being dishonest in their dealings.

Remember that they have to answer the same questions to have a temple recommend as everyone else.

Seems a bit odd to me to believe an ex-Mormons website over the leaders of the church.

Am I missing something?

By the way, buying real estate is not against the law. In fact, what smarter place to put money than in real estate? Not only is the return solid, but there’s also returns related to costs of upkeep and depreciation expense.

Personally I get excited to hear about the growth of the church in any fashion.