Would You REALLY Want to Know

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I assume most of the readers here believe the LDS church to be God(s) “true” church.

Just for arguements sake, let’s pretend for a moment that the church isn’t true. Would you want to know?

35 thoughts on “Would You REALLY Want to Know

  1. I think there might be several parts to the claim to be God’s “True” Church as being false. For example if Joseph Smith had simply made things up would that change what Mormonism really is?

    If Joseph Smith was a prophet and latter leaders were not called of God would that change what Mormonism is?

    I expect a large number of people would continue to follow the prophet and do what they are told even if the religion was not the “True” church.

    Calling itself to be the “True” Church gives credence to many who need something to believe in regardless of the outcome.

    I vote that it would not change things.

  2. I already think the church isn’t capital-T True. Does it have to be capital-T ONLYTRUE True to be true? Not at all.

  3. If the church isn’t true, we all better get to work real fast and find out what is.

    When I found out about the church, I was not particularly interested in religion or joining a church, but I have always cared about knowing the truth of things as they really are. I went through the first 18 years of my life thinking that nobody really knew, and I was a member of a church.

    I think our leaders counsel to stay focused on the mainstream of the church is a good one; that way we stay out of the fringes and back to where the rubber meets the road.

  4. If I really cared about getting into the celestial kingdom, then I would really want to know the answer here.

  5. I think the answer to this question is pretty much a given. Most reasonable people want to know the ‘truth’. A major portion of our society is constructed around the discovery of truth in all forms.

    I think a better question would be as follows:

    I assume most of the readers here believe the LDS church to be God(s) “true” church.

    Do you wish it wasn’t?

  6. “Most reasonable people want to know the ‘truth’.”

    There must be whole lot of unreasonable members out there, then. Most the members to whom I speak are blissfully unaware of pertinent details of their faith.

  7. Actually, that’s a good point.

    How often do we run across people who want to hide from the truth?

    The truth is noble. The truth works on our consciences. It’s as if people have a natural tendency to think if they ignore the truth, it will go away. Too much effort involved.

    Ahhhh. How much nicer it would be to just kick around on Sunday. Wouldn’t it be nice to just be able to go kick around at the mall on Sunday or go to the movies?

    No more having to call people and set up home teaching appointments and then go seeing them every month or feeling guilty if we don’t.

  8. Not knowing the details doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t want to know.

    It’s also possible that they have heard the details and made another decision, or have additional information that perhaps you don’t.

    I’m aware of some of the “Details” you are probably talking about, yet those don’t affect my core beliefs. I take all the information that I have access to, evaluate, and come to a conclusion. Just because I come to a different conclusion doesn’t mean I’m unreasonable.

    However, I would agree that there are many unreasonable members of the LDS church who are close-minded and afraid / unwilling to evaluate anything other than the party line.

  9. No more having to call people and set up home teaching appointments and then go seeing them every month or feeling guilty if we don’t.

    Sounds like you’re going for the wrong reason(s). I’d rather have my elders not go at all than go because they feel guilty otherwise.

    Just last month actually, my companion waited until the end of the month to make appointments and two of them fell through a couple of days later. Did I feel guilty? No. We saw them last week. I’m not going to hold my companion’s hand. He had a responsibility, and it was up to him whether he fulfilled it or not.

  10. You’re absolutely right.

    I was just making up examples; you and I both know that the act of doing home teaching is out of the comfort zone for some people. That was the point.

  11. Let me clarify this a little more. What you are absolutely right about is the best reason to do our home teaching is not to avoid feeling guilty.

    Part of the reason we have callings in the church is for our benefit to help us grow.

    When we accept a position or calling in the church, we accept the responsibilities that go along with it as well as the trust that has been placed with us to see that the job is done.

    I wonder about someone who can sluff off his responsibilities and be alright with it.

    I wonder about a man that is not willing to work on overcoming his fears.

  12. I wonder about an outdated program that is usually improperly administered and poorly executed. I wonder why the focus is never on that part of home teaching. I wonder if there might be a better way to watch over, be with, and strengthen.

  13. Interesting thought. Sounds like it would be something that would certainly be worthy of serious consideration and attention at least by quorum leaders.

  14. JM, I believe that there are many members who are willfully ignorant of doctrine and church history.

    Not only are they unaware of facts about the church, they actively avoid any investigation of same.

    To me it’s the ultimate, my boats not rockin’ and if I stay very still perhaps it never will, scenario.

  15. @JM re: 8

    “Do you wish it [the LDS church] wasn’t [true]?”

    That’s an interesting question. I don’t understand why people would wish the church wasn’t true, unless it was because they like to live guilt free when they choose to drink or smoke, shop on Sunday, or decide not to enter polygamous relationships (assuming Joseph Smith was guiding us properly when he said it was a requirement to get into the Celestial Kingdom) or any number of other equally difficult doctrines.

    In fact I’ll go so far as to say people who don’t believe in the church should probably still WISH that it was true. At least if the church were true, you’d know that life doesn’t end at death.

    However, wishing it doesn’t make it so.

  16. What’s the alternative; God has left us to wander around in this world in confusion. If it weren’t, I think I would have a feeling that we were toast.

  17. My garry, you’re quite the Nihilist.

    Does the fact that you can’t imagine an alternative to believing the church is true, more indicative of the truthfulness of the church or your own limitations?

    I don’t believe in God, hence I don’t believe the church is true. Yet for some strange, incomprehensible reason, I don’t feel confused and wandering at all.

    garry, am I simply an anomaly?

  18. I wouldn’t say that. I just happen to think that having real answers about basic things relative to the purpose of our existence here is important to me and which I would be uncomfortable without.

  19. Umm… You’re missing one of the options.

    It is possible for one to have answers and for the church to be untrue.

    It’s not necessarily ‘the church is true’ or ‘I don’t have any answers’.

  20. I read in the paper today where the Pope now claims the Catholic Church is the “True” Church. Either the question was inspired or the Pope must read “Our Thoughts” for inspiration.

  21. Re: 23…what’s the chance of that considering the evidence to the contrary? Which is the best choice?

    Go with what you want, but I’ll go with it being true.

    I know it’s just my opinion, but I’m right.

    Re: 25

    That could be, but don’t call me surely.

  22. “I know it’s just my opinion, but I’m right.”

    There it is; tolerance summed up in a single sentence.

  23. My impression is that there are many people (and not all of them stupid ones) who care more about feeling comfortable and being part of a group than knowing with all certainty that core doctrine is “true”.

    People are attracted to and practice various religious doctrines for a variety of reasons.

    As for me – I question it all and struggle with what “truth” means. But in the end … I believe I am better off by the faith and obedience I have established in my life NO MATTER WHAT the “objective reality” may or may not be.

  24. garry said: “Re: 25 That could be, but don’t call me surely.”

    I always thought it was spelled Shirley.

  25. Belladonna said: “As for me – I question it all and struggle with what “truth” means. But in the end … I believe I am better off by the faith and obedience I have established in my life NO MATTER WHAT the “objective reality” may or may not be.”

    I can relate to what you are saying about objective reality.

    I just started reading Mayflower so your comments were interesting.

  26. “I believe I am better off by the faith and obedience I have established in my life NO MATTER WHAT the “objective reality” may or may not be.”

    That type of thinking can be dangerous. The members of Heaven’s Gate or the Branch Davidians felt the same way. Dogmatism is generally more dangerous than open mindedness.

  27. Rick;

    I absolutely agree with you that blindly following ANY belief system – even a good one, without careful consideration can be dangerous. However, as I said in my original post I DO question it all, not just swallow down whatever I am told.

    I have considered, tested, observed, experimented A LOT with the LDS faith over the past 25 yrs. I know what my life was like prior to the church (think of a train wreck and you have a good idea.) I know what my life is like now. I have lots of EVIDENCE that I’m better off now. That consideration and evidence is why I say that the faith and obedience I now experience make practicing this faith a good thing for me, whether it is true or not.

    I have faith. But faith, by its definition, is not certain knowledge. So while I mostly believe that it is true, I recognize that I could be wrong. The very fact that there are LOTS of people in the world who believe very strongly that their specific brand is THE ONE TRUE CHURCH (i.e. the Pope’s recent declaration) just goes to show that believing it doesn’t make it so.

    My problem has never been open mindedness. I’ve been accused of being so open minded my brains would fall out.

    Yes, dogmatism is dangerous. But being TOO open-minded can be just as harmful. In these days of praising tolerance and embracing diversity there are far too many
    who have no convictions in anything at all, least they be duped or poltically incorrect.

    In some cases of extreme cultural relativity and giving the benefit of a doubt to opposing views people go so far as to say things like: “Well, sure I personally am opposed to genocide, but if you look at the context of the things the Nazi’s did, they honestly believed they were ridding the world of dangerous elements, so even though they were terribly misguided, their INTENT was a good one and they were willing to go to extreme measures to stand up for what they believed so you’ve kind of got to admire them for that.”

    The particular example may seem absurd, but I’ve heard similar arguments about everything from the Mountain Meadow Massacre to female circumcision. That is what being excessively open minded can lead to.

    What I needed was not more open mindedness, but rather a good strong dose of something to hold on to in the face of my ever present ambivalence and uncertainty in this crazy complicated world.

    I believe it’s true. I hope it’s true. But in the end….I’d take my life as a struggling LDS any day over my life in the world.

  28. Semantics. When I refer to being “in the world” I meant when I lived according to the law of Babylon rather than the law of God.

    I guess I should remember that cheesy Seminary video from years back with the song “Not of this world” about remaining IN the world but not being OF this world.

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