Our Thoughts

Kirby Heyborne Beer Commercial

By Kim Siever, 09 Jun 2008

Kirby Heyborne (Singles Ward, RM, The Best Two Years, Saints and Soldiers) recently acted in a commercial for US brewer Miller. Here’s the video:

Any thoughts?

Popularity: 17% [?]

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223 Responses to “Kirby Heyborne Beer Commercial”

Jeff Milner said:

Maybe it was the root-brewski that attracted him there.

9 Jun 2008 @ 21:42 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

In spite of the big freak out many members seem to be having, they forget he is an actor, he took a job and at the end of the day, that’s his choice, not ours.

10 Jun 2008 @ 04:09 | Permalink
Ian M. Cook said:

Sooo Dissapointed. I’m going to have to destroy those pictures of my wife with Kirby now… :-)

10 Jun 2008 @ 07:53 | Permalink
Bull Moose said:

And Gordon Jump played a child molester on a very special episode of the sitcom, “Diff’rent Strokes”.

By the way, in Saints and Soldiers, Heyborne portrayed an RAF officer, and was depicted smoking a cigarette. Not much of a hue and cry over that that I can remember.

Is it the fact that he appears to be shilling for Miller Lite that is disturbing?

10 Jun 2008 @ 10:39 | Permalink
Ian M. Cook said:

I agree with someone else that posted on a discussion forum out there in the blue nowhere. They said that an actor portraying a character in a movie we often see as pretend, but in commercials, or advertisements, we see it as endorsements. So, in essence, it’s easier for us to watch a guy like Gordon or Kirby portray characters that are doing things against our beliefs rather than seeing them endorsing something.

I’m not sure that they two things are all that different though. Kirby is acting in the commercial as much as he’s acting when he takes that drag on that cigarette.

10 Jun 2008 @ 11:09 | Permalink
HeidiAnn said:

2,4, & 5,

I agree, but . . .

I still don’t like it, I still wish he hadn’t done it. My opinion, however, makes no difference. I don’t think he’s gone apostate or anything. He’s an actor, but . . .

I still don’t like it, I still wish he hadn’t done it.

10 Jun 2008 @ 15:49 | Permalink
Bull Moose said:

HeidiAnn, is it the same as watching Harry Connick, Jr. portray a creepy serial killer in Copycat? Or hearing Pat Boone sing heavy metal songs “his way”?

Is it that twisting of what we thought represented reality: ie., Heyborne is a good Mormon boy and would never touch a beer, even while acting?

Or is it merely the fact that he’s in a commercial for beer that’s troubling?

I’m still going to wait for this commercial to play during Game 3 of the NBA finals tonight (I remmeber it from Game 1, but didn’t see K.H.) and point him out to my family.

10 Jun 2008 @ 16:03 | Permalink
Hugh said:

Just don’t take him fishin’ alone. ;)

10 Jun 2008 @ 21:31 | Permalink
Ryno said:

I think its sad that here is someone that many LDS kids look up too and now he is portraying something that is obviously against their faith – it is sad that he has decided to do this, I hope it doesnt have an effect over a person whose faith is LDS and sees this and decides it ok to “do as kirby does”.

11 Jun 2008 @ 10:53 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

Ryno,

What is he portraying that is against the LDS faith?

11 Jun 2008 @ 10:57 | Permalink
Ian M. Cook said:

Well, he’s playing a person who likes to drink beer, and he not only likes to drink beer, he is travelling across the city to find said beer. Last I heard, beer drinking is against the LDS faith.

Granted, the beer drinking is implied, but what exactly is he going to do with that bottle when he goes inside?

11 Jun 2008 @ 11:34 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

There is nothing in the commercial that indicates Kirby’s character likes to drink beer. For all we know, he likes to go to parties. Even so, his character doesn’t seem any where near as excited as his friend.

Granted, the beer drinking is implied, but what exactly is he going to do with that bottle when he goes inside?

No drinking is implied. He doesn’t even open the bottle. For all we know, he is holding it for a friend.

Even if his character does go into the party and drink, which is just conjecture, that would be implying, not portraying.

11 Jun 2008 @ 12:51 | Permalink
SingleSpeed said:

I think it sounds like a good career move. I would have taken the job, too.

11 Jun 2008 @ 13:10 | Permalink
etigger said:

Give the guy a break. Making a career of acting is a real achievement. Besides, beer is one of the few things still Made in the USA. We should thank him for his economic development efforts among the Gentiles!

11 Jun 2008 @ 15:01 | Permalink
Elizabeth said:

I have no problem with LDS actors portraying a character as long as the material isn’t R, but promoting beer is an entirely different story. In response to several other comments, Brother Heyborne used stage cigarettes in Saints and Soldiers.

11 Jun 2008 @ 15:07 | Permalink
Ian M. Cook said:

I think you are pushing it a little bit Kim. I think that if you asked 99 out of a hundred people what they think his character was planning on doing after he went inside, they would say that he was going to drink the beer. If Miller wasn’t implying that he was going to drink the beer, then why have the commercial in the first place?

So, maybe Kirby isn’t portraying a character that is drinking beer, he is portraying a character that it is implied that he is going to drink beer.

It’s all semantics anyway. It’s pretty clear that Kirby Heyborne is in a commercial that is advertising beer. If you are fine with that, that’s cool, but I can really see how many members of the church would have a problem with that.

11 Jun 2008 @ 15:16 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

If Miller wasn’t implying that he was going to drink the beer, then why have the commercial in the first place?

The whole point of the commercial is to portray that beer makes a great party, not that people specifically drink the beer.

I can really see how many members of the church would have a problem with that.

So can I. Mormons judge way too much.

11 Jun 2008 @ 15:21 | Permalink
Susan said:

Hey, he probably got what he wanted…people are talking about him. Publicity is good for an actor.

11 Jun 2008 @ 15:23 | Permalink
JimD said:

The whole point of the commercial is to portray that beer makes a great party, not that people specifically drink the beer.

I think that’s an artificial distinction. Unless you believe that beer makes a great party by just sitting there on the counter where people can look at it.

11 Jun 2008 @ 16:50 | Permalink
Ryno said:

doesnt everyone judge way too much? and by making your assumption that “mormons judge way to much” – aren’t you making an judgement? Not all mormons judge people, just like all Americans arent fat, and anyways- Kirby is portraying something that is against the beliefs of many people that are familiar with the type of movies that Kirby acts in, and this recent “career move” is one that goes shows him going against the faith that all pretty much know him by, all that I was saying is that it is sad he chose to go that route.

11 Jun 2008 @ 19:33 | Permalink
Owen said:

“I hope it doesnt have an effect over a person whose faith is LDS and sees this and decides it ok to “do as kirby does”.” If that’s the case, maybe it’s time for a real testimony. Grow up people.

11 Jun 2008 @ 20:42 | Permalink
Cari said:

I agree with what Owen said. If you have a testimony of the “word of wisom” you aren’t going to go drink a beer because Kirby did it. It’s not like President Monson was is in a beer commercal!

11 Jun 2008 @ 21:49 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

JimD, if the point of the commercial were to show people drinking beer, why did no one drink beer in the commercial?

doesnt everyone judge way too much?

Technically, yes, since no one should judge at all.

by making your assumption that “mormons judge way to much” – aren’t you making an judgement?

Yes. But my judgement is at least anecdotal (2 years all over Utah, 10 years in Southern Alberta, and various wards in Saskatchewan and BC)and not based on moral superiority.

Not all mormons judge people

Agreed, but then again, I didn’t say all do. I made a generalization, but it wasn’t absolute.

Kirby is portraying something that is against the beliefs of many people

No he’s not. Unless you are referring to something that may or may not be implied. Or unless it is against the beliefs of many of his viewers to not attend parties. Which is entirely possible, but it’s not immoral.

this recent “career move”

It’s not a career move. He hasn’t had any work, his family needs food, and this job came along.

it is sad he chose to go that route.

It’s sadder he’s being held under a microscope. Nothing he did would keep his temple recommend away.

11 Jun 2008 @ 21:56 | Permalink
Jon W. said:

Now THAT would be something. President Monson on a bud light commercial.

Actually, this is a who cares for me. Gordon Jump would also drink “purple cows” on WKRP and would look pretty excited about that as well.

Dunno, seems like a whole lot of nothing to me. My kids of course would have no clue who he is. It is not like he is dancing with a few bikini babes or something.

11 Jun 2008 @ 21:58 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

What I think is it that it is no one’s business what he does. He didn’t do anything that threatens his membership, but the fact that everyone seems prepared to judge and condemn him speaks loudly for ‘our’ priorities…which seem to be more about ‘his’ salvation rather than our own.

The huge furor about it is ironic in a way. How many members of the church work at casinos? Or sell alcoholic drinks r cigarettes to people? I don’t see everyone getting in an uproar about them.

12 Jun 2008 @ 05:54 | Permalink
Ian M. Cook said:

I thought people might want to read this interview with Kirby about the commercial.

http://www.mormontimes.com/MITN_entertainment.php?id=1282

12 Jun 2008 @ 06:34 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

I should say also that it always amazes me how members of the church seem to think alcohol, coffee, tea and cigarettes are more important than the other parts of the Word of Wisdom. They aren’t. They are of equal importance, but so many members seem to forget that and think they are following the W of W as they eschew alcohol and coffee, but scarf those donuts and cookies while ignoring vegetables and fresh fruit.

12 Jun 2008 @ 06:45 | Permalink
JimD said:

It’s one thing to say “well, that’s none of our business, so I won’t comment publicly”. (But then, if “judging” Kirby [or condemning his conduct--and no, the two are not the same, theologically speaking] really is so very reprehensible, I’m a little baffled as to why you would have written a blog post that you must have known, in some quarters at least, would spur precisely that reaction. Trying to set up a stumbling block for your conservative brethren, are you? ;-) )

It’s entirely another thing to try to justify the behavior by making artificial distinctions such as “well, the commercial is only to get people to buy the beer, not to actually drink the beer.”

At the end of the day, Kirby accepted money from a beer company (well, from a beer company via the advertiser) in order to help it to distribute its product, whose sole purpose is to be ingested. There’s no getting around that. There’s a lot of merit to an “economic duress” defense (I’ve used it myself to justify working on Sundays), but let’s not pretend that the commercial was something other than what it was.

12 Jun 2008 @ 07:05 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

He wrote it to generate discussion (thought that was obvious).

At the end of the day it isn’t our business. Let’s worry about what WE are doing and not what someone else is doing. I am not responsible for Kirby’s salvation and he isn’t responsible for mine. Frankly I have enough in my own life to worry about and work on and anyone who wastes time criticizing him or anyone for that matter, needs to take a good hard look at their own life and when thy become perfect, they can judge. But wait. Jesus IS perfect and I don’t see HIM condemning Kirby!!

And besides that, how many members work in places that sell alcohol? So they do exactly the same thing, but don’t get vilified on the internet for it.

WHO CARES about the commercial? Too many do, obviously.

12 Jun 2008 @ 07:25 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

It’s entirely another thing to try to justify the behavior by making artificial distinctions such as “well, the commercial is only to get people to buy the beer, not to actually drink the beer.”

Do you really think brewers care if people drink their beer? What does it matter to them? They’re just happy if the beer is purchased. Whether some drinks it or pours it down the drain, it’s the same dollar to them.

At the end of the day, Kirby accepted money from a beer company (well, from a beer company via the advertiser) in order to help it to distribute its product, whose sole purpose is to be ingested.

By that same logic, I guess Mormon violinists shouldn’t play in music festivals sponsored by cigarette manufacturers, and Mormon race car drivers should drive in races sponsored by brewers. I don’t think I am ready to make that claim.

The funny thing is if Kirby were in a Krispy Kreme commercial eating 3 dozen doughnuts, no one would have said a thing. Yet that would have been in direct violation of the Word of Wisdom, whereas picking up a bottle of beer isn’t.

12 Jun 2008 @ 07:46 | Permalink
JimD said:

Mary, I agree that Mr. Heyborne’s decision to act in the commercial isn’t my business. You may have noticed that I didn’t start commenting to this thread until Kim seemed to suggest by implication that there’s really nothing wrong with soliciting the purchase of alcohol.

I am under no obligation to remain silent in the face of a public attack on my standards just because a Mormon actor whom we all like has chosen to disregard them in a very public way.

Kim–

To me, it’s a question of the primary motive of the production and the degree to which the actor understands that motive. If one performs in a TV program (or other event with significant entertainment value and whose overall message does not promote immoral behavior) sponsored in part by a brewer, or tobacco company, or whatever–I don’t see any problem with that kind of behavior. Ditto if one genuinely doesn’t understand that the primary motive of the production is the propagation of some objectionable purpose.

But I maintain that your distinction between the purchase and consumption of an item is an artificial one. First, you do not account for the hope of most producers that the consumer will consume the item purchased, develop an affinity for it, and then come back and purchase more of that item.

Second, even barring the first factor, your argument begs the question of why we prohibit the sale of alcohol and tobacco to minors if there is only a minimal link between purchase and consumption. Why do we prohibit the advertising of same in close proximity to school grounds? Why do we adopt dram shop liability for the damages caused by drunk drivers?

As I interpret your argument, there would seem to be no problem with selling pornography or fully automatic assault weapons (no hyperbole here!) to any person, under any circumstances, so long as the primary motive of those items’ producers/sellers is to make a buck rather than ensure the use of those items.

So the question is, where do we draw the line?

12 Jun 2008 @ 08:55 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Jim

I never said you or anyone should remain silent. I just wonder why Kirby is being dragged through the mud when many other members even more blatantly break the commandments but aren’t tarred with the same brush?

I also still say that alcohol is no more important than other aspects of the Word of Wisdom (and this comes after deep study of the issue) but members still focus on it being more important to abstain from alcohol than to eat healthy (and I have never had any alcohol in my life). The promises in the Word of Wisdom do not just apply to abstaining from alcohol, coffee, tea and cigarettes, but also to KEEPING the admonitions later in Section 89. But members are notorious for ignoring those scriptures almost completely.

How about instead of slamming Kirby for taking an acting job, we target the real culprits, the alcohol manufacturers?

12 Jun 2008 @ 09:11 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

JimD,

Before I comment further, what do you think I am arguing? With your statements “your argument begs the question . . .” and “As I interpret your argument . . .”, I want to ensure you understand what I am arguing before I respond to it. I certainly don’t want to respond to something I am not arguing.

That being said, I will respond to this:

Kim seemed to suggest by implication that there’s really nothing wrong with soliciting the purchase of alcohol.

Just because you interpreted that from my comment, does not mean I was implying it.

12 Jun 2008 @ 09:12 | Permalink
rick said:

How is this any different from the Marriotts showing adult films at their hotels?

It’s his job to portray things he doesn’t really do. Get over it.

12 Jun 2008 @ 09:14 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

They don’t, rick. The hotels are independently run.

12 Jun 2008 @ 09:15 | Permalink
rick said:

Yeah right, Kim. But for some reason they can still get a Book of Mormon in every room.

They could opt to make it policy and they choose not to.

12 Jun 2008 @ 09:18 | Permalink
JimD said:

Kim, I interpreted your post #17 as saying that the commercial isn’t really encouraging people to drink the beer they buy, so there really isn’t anything wrong with the commercial and there’s nothing wrong with participating in its production.

If I’ve misinterpreted, please set me straight.

12 Jun 2008 @ 09:30 | Permalink
JimD said:

Kim, my memory is a bit hazy, but it seems that BCC or T&S had the discussion about Marriott and the upshot (I think) was that Marriott actually has its own subsidiary company that handles providing cable services to Marriott hotels.

12 Jun 2008 @ 09:34 | Permalink
Bull Moose said:

Gordon Jump would also drink “purple cows” on WKRP and would look pretty excited about that as well.

Jon W., FYI, the WOW is fairly silent on purple cows, unless you count the calories as excessive to the point that the drinker couldn’t “run and not be weary, and … walk and not faint.”

It’s a grape soda (or grape juice) with an ice cream float, or ice cream mixed in. I don’t think it’s as heinous as you imply.

12 Jun 2008 @ 09:40 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

Re: #36, rick, that’d be easier if the board of directors were all Mormon.

Re: #37, JimD, I never said there isn’t anything wrong with the commercial, nor did I say there’s nothing wrong with participating in its production.

The point of all my comments is that we shouldn’t be judging Kirby for his choice. I mean, after all, where was the uproar when he smoked a cigarette on Saints and Soldiers? It’s one thing to drink a bottle of beer, and quite another to pick up a bottle of beer.

12 Jun 2008 @ 09:40 | Permalink
JimD said:

I agree with you, Kim, though for clarity I’d like to define “judging Kirby”.

If you mean “judging” in the scriptural/Elder Oaks sense of saying “Kirby has forfeited his exaltation”, great.

If you mean “judging” in the sense of “Kirby has gone his way, and I wish him well, but it’s not a path I would travel or recommend others travel”–It’s certainly impolitic to bring up his name rather than keeping the discussion in purely hypothetical terms, but I don’t know that the discussion ought to be shut down by invocation of the dreaded “j” word.

I personally think the issue with appearing in a beer commercial (versus smoking a stage cigarette in a war movie) goes back to the “overall message” of the production. I didn’t see Saints and Soldiers, so I can’t comment as to that. But, speaking hypothetically, I don’t see a problem with a Mormon actor playing a nasty character like Thenardier or an abusive pimp in the musical Les Miserables, because clearly the overall message is that those guys are reprehensible and conduct such as theirs should be avoided. With a beer commercial, the overall message is very different. I, at least, would be uncomfortable with appearing in such a production even if the role I was playing were that of a good, teetotaling Mormon boy.

12 Jun 2008 @ 10:34 | Permalink
Kathryn May said:

2 news in Salt Lake City is interested in interviewing people about their reaction to Kirby Heyborne acting in a beer commercial. If you would like to comment please call 801-455-1806

12 Jun 2008 @ 12:42 | Permalink
Dar said:

I honestly can’t believe that the SLC news is interviewing people on their reaction to this individual acting (doing his Job) in a beer commercial. How ridiculous!! Why do “most” members feel that they are entitled to judge others at all??

Oh wait…I can totally believe it!

I have way too much going on in my own life to worry about what other people are doing.

12 Jun 2008 @ 14:26 | Permalink
Owen said:

“And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye: and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye: and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” St. Matthew 6:3–5

I find it sad that so many members are such self-righteous idiots and so quick to judge others. Instead of worrying about someone’s career choices, maybe we should be more worried about what we do with our own lives. Anyone trying to judge, condemn, critique, or any other form of examination of this mans character, best bury their heads in their scriptures and spend a little more time on their knees.

12 Jun 2008 @ 21:31 | Permalink
eric said:

The last I checked, the church hasn’t taught that moderate use of alcohol is inherently immoral. Come on, Jesus drank wine, and so did Joseph Smith (even after the Word of Wisdom was revealed).

And some wonder why Mormons have a reputation for being so judgmental …

12 Jun 2008 @ 22:21 | Permalink
m&m said:

Why did no one drink beer in the commercial?

No one ever does. I think it’s a restriction on what they will allow in the advertisements in general.

It is no one’s business what he does

Sure it is. An performer’s life is all about the fans and keeping them happy. Mormons are a particularly picky crowd. We all can and do have opinions about who and what we will endorse with our own money. I can’t help but think this will, in the long run, hurt his career if he cares about keeping loyalty of the fans he has had to this point. It’s about image management, and this was a bad move if he wanted to keep LDS folks happy.

It’s just like ‘judging’ a company for what it endorses. You hear people not wanting to patronize this company or that company because of what they do or don’t do or what they do or don’t support. To me, it’s similar with an actor. He is a living business in a sense, his own company. There is nothing out of line with this kind of personal analysis. We all have to decide what people/businesses/causes we are willing to support.

There is a difference, imo, between making judgments about his eternal soul and being disappointed in someone’s choice who chose a career that put him in the public eye, and again, is all about keeping the fans happy. Some won’t care, and some will, and that should matter to an actor, imo.

I’m sympathetic to the need to support a family, but I do think there are other ways he could consider making money than doing something that obviously bugged a lot of people.

12 Jun 2008 @ 22:37 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

re#26 It was still his choice, and not ours.

I suppose I have never fallen into the trap of believing celebrities are out there for my own pleasure, but rather, human beings in their own right.

13 Jun 2008 @ 04:16 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

An performer’s life is all about the fans and keeping them happy.

Really? I thought it was performing. Granted, some probably do it for the fame, but there are many who do it because they love to. Some actors love to act, some singers love to sing, and some ball players love to play ball. Celebrities shouldn’t be guilted in doing whatever their fanbase wants them to.

I can’t help but think this will, in the long run, hurt his career if he cares about keeping loyalty of the fans he has had to this point.

That’s actually kind of the point. If he stays in LDS cinema, he doesn’t have a career.

There is a difference, imo, between making judgments about his eternal soul and being disappointed in someone’s choice who chose a career that put him in the public eye

It’s one thing to feel disappointment. It’s quite another to go as far as saying the following:

I do think there are other ways he could consider making money than doing something that obviously bugged a lot of people.

That’s judging.

13 Jun 2008 @ 07:37 | Permalink
JimD said:

That’s judging.

In light of the Dallin H. Oaks speech I link to below, that seems somewhat questionable.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=2d0584d4a0a0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

13 Jun 2008 @ 09:23 | Permalink
m&m said:

Hm, Kim, I guess I don’t really see it that way, regarding my last statement. It’s a matter of fact that actors can choose other work on the side. And what he did DID bug a lot of people. In the end, his choice on a personal level is between him and God, but I still think that it was a poor choice, a poor business choice if nothing else. And I think it was a poor role model choice for someone who is a youth speaker.

On another topic, thanks for the kind note at my blog. :)

13 Jun 2008 @ 09:41 | Permalink
Tyler said:

Get a life people.

13 Jun 2008 @ 15:44 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Troll.

13 Jun 2008 @ 17:36 | Permalink
Craig C said:

Kirby is my fav actor! i agree with the comment close to the top, it’s just a job. It’s not breaking the comandments and he’s not really drinking it. Personaly I wouldn’t have done that, but its not our place to judge him. And I think he is a great guy, a great actor, and great member of the church. We all need to remember we are all gods children!

14 Jun 2008 @ 16:24 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

Great thoughts, Craig.

14 Jun 2008 @ 17:30 | Permalink
ltbugaf said:

I appreciate Eric’s comment #45. I don’t think people are sinning by having a beer unless they’re under a covenant not to do so. It’s comparable to a malum prohibitum crime rather than a malum in se crime. Obviously the use of alcohol isn’t inherently evil, but it would be wrong for me because, as a Latter-day Saint, I’ve made covenants not to do it.

14 Jun 2008 @ 22:29 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

it would be wrong for me because, as a Latter-day Saint, I’ve made covenants not to do it.

When?

15 Jun 2008 @ 06:03 | Permalink
wanders said:

I’ve never seen his movies, but when he said in the news that he doesn’t “endorse beer,” he’s kidding himself.

Dude. You do a commercial, you’re making an endorsement. You don’t fool anyone but yourself if you think doing an ad isn’t endorsing something.

This guy is one beer short of a six-pack.

15 Jun 2008 @ 06:24 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

No, when you are in a commercial you are doing a job. It doesn’t automatically mean you endorse it. And let he who is without sin cast the first stone. The amount of condemning Kirby has received seems to indicate there are numerous perfect people out there.

15 Jun 2008 @ 08:11 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Besides that, he is breaking no commandments by being in the commercial and is still perfectly worthy to receive a temple recommend. Not that it matters to anyone except himself, his wife and the Lord.

15 Jun 2008 @ 08:12 | Permalink
wanders said:

I never said he was “sinning.” That would be lame. I just said that he was kidding himself if he says he isn’t endorsing beer. Because he totally is. No matter how much you idolize this guy, and rush to his defense, and declare all jobs worth doing, it doesn’t change the fact: You do an advertisement for anything, you are endorsing it. I’m sure he’s a fun actor, I’ve never seen him, but I wish him well.

16 Jun 2008 @ 06:27 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

I don’t idolise him at all, I wouldn’t even call myself a fan. I have only watched one of his shows. I just don’t believe in vilifying people strictly because they are celebrities and putting them to a higher standard than anyone else. Whether I agree with his decision or not isn’t important. What is important is that it his own decision and as I said; it is between Kirby, his wife and the Lord.

16 Jun 2008 @ 07:05 | Permalink
JM said:

The argument that he was just acting is silly. Perhaps he should get into porn as the copier repair man who cannot do his job because the copier is currently being “used for something else”. I mean, nothing wrong with that, right?

If Mr. Heyborne is a temple worthy member as he claims to be, how did he ever answer this question honestly?

“Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?”

I’m pretty sure that by apprearing in the beer commercial, he not only affiliated with, but directly supported such a group.

16 Jun 2008 @ 11:26 | Permalink
ltbugaf said:

Kim, in answer to Question 56, I’d say the two occasions that stand out in my mind are when I was baptized, covenanting to follow Christ and keep all his commandments, and when I was endowed and made essentially the same promise.

16 Jun 2008 @ 22:49 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

Interesting. I didn’t realize picking up a bottle of beer or starring in a beer commercial was breaking a commandment.

17 Jun 2008 @ 07:35 | Permalink
Ian M. Cook said:

Kim, would you consider yourself as a letter of the law person or a spirit of the law person?

17 Jun 2008 @ 07:37 | Permalink
z Mormon said:

I have personally met up with Kirby and asked him several questions. First of all, with the Saints and Solders movie, those cigs were herbal. Second, there are always reasons for his decisions in life. He may have been in need of money for his family. We can not judge him for his actions. I have been a huge fan of his for several years and I know he is a great man and he would never cause anything to harm himself. I still would consider him temple worthy guy and I will not judge him for what he has done. Remember- there are always reasons for our actions. He will make mistakes and he will fix them on his own if he thinks it’s that bad. I’m a fan and I am on Kirby’s side.

17 Jun 2008 @ 07:47 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

Both, Ian.

When I say “keep the commandments”, I refer to actual commandments.

I also try to go beyond that by doing things that may not be commandments, but that I have interpreted to be things I should be doing to improve my spirituality.

17 Jun 2008 @ 07:58 | Permalink
Ian M. Cook said:

I only ask that because you seem to be pretty letter of the law on this issue. There is no letter of the law on getting paid to pick up a beer bottle for a commercial, so it must be ok. The letter of the law of the word of wisdom does not in any way say anything about what Kirby did. However, many people would consider the commercial against the spirit of the law. Just my two cents.

Personally, I am a tad dissapointed that he did the commercial. I am not judging him, I will not boycott his movies. I’m sure he is a member in good standing… but, i’m dissapointed in him the same way i’m disappointed in my son for not cleaning his room. It’s not that I hate him or dislike him or think he’s a bad person for not doing his chores, but I can be disappointed for sure. That’s how I feel in this situation. I’m sure others feel the same way. That is not in any way judgmental in my book. I hope my children do not choose to appear in beer commercials.

Yes, there are many judgemental people out there, there are many judging Kirby for his actions. That is probably not the best way to look at the situation.

17 Jun 2008 @ 09:35 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

Actually, the “letter of the law of the word of wisdom” says what Kirby did is fine considering D&C 89 states mild drinks (of which beer is one) are fine to consume. But that’s a whole other discussion.

17 Jun 2008 @ 09:39 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Ian

I don’t agree with that choice either, on a personal level, however I too, do not judge Kirby, it was his choice and so as such doesn’t affect me as far as it making a difference in my life. But so many members are literally irate about his choice which I think goes WAY beyond the importance of this issue and speaks more about their own characters rather than Kirby’s.

17 Jun 2008 @ 09:52 | Permalink
kay said:

The last I heard was that the LDS Church teach thier members about forgivness. We all make mistakes in this life. And what about free agency!

17 Jun 2008 @ 09:57 | Permalink
Andy said:

Call me a hypocrit if I judge: Kim S, point simple: Avoid the appearance of evil. How would you react if you saw your husband, father, son, or whoever pick up a beer? Maybe carry it in their pocket. Use it to roll out dough? A beer is alcohol. Alcohol is against the Word of Wisdom. You pick up a beer you are giving the appearance of evil EVEN IF IT IS YOUR JOB. If my job asked me to embezzle money, that wouldn’t make it okay for me to do it because it was my job. Or how about fudging numbers to make them LOOK right. So should I keep doing my job when it gives the appearance of evil? According to your intellectually logical but spirtually devoid stance I guess it’s okay for me to do so.

17 Jun 2008 @ 14:10 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

I think you misinterpret 1 Thess. 5:22. “Appearance of evil” doesn’t mean anything that seems evil; it means “every time evil shows up/presents itself”.

Your examples of embezzlement and fraud do not parallel Kirby’s experience considering both are illegal and can result in church discipline, whereas Kirby faces no such result.

How would you react if you saw your husband . . . pick up a beer

The issue wouldn’t be how I would react. The issue would be how my wife (and even the church) would react to my being married to a man.

17 Jun 2008 @ 14:17 | Permalink
Andy said:

So you deflect the question with humor and rhetoric?

17 Jun 2008 @ 14:19 | Permalink
rick said:

“You pick up a beer you are giving the appearance of evil EVEN IF IT IS YOUR JOB.”

So working in shipping is out of the question, I guess.
You never know what you might be transporting…

17 Jun 2008 @ 14:21 | Permalink
Andy said:

“So working in shipping is out of the question, I guess. You never know what you might be transporting…”

Semantics. I can’t be as perfect as you intellectual giants in making my point.

Elder Bruce R. McConkie said:

The gospel is one of peace, harmony, unity, and agreement. In it argument and debate are supplanted by discussion and study Those who have the Spirit do not hang doggedly to a point of doctrine or philosophy for no other reason than to come off victorious in a disagreement. Their purpose, rather, is to seek the truth by investigation, research, and inspiration (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed. [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 19661, p.161).

Kirby made a decision that affects his IMAGE in the church but not his standing. I think it was a bad one and he will be responcsible for it. I am going to let this one go. Even if you can’t.

17 Jun 2008 @ 14:26 | Permalink
Walter Horne said:

I can’t believe the justification that is going on in these posts. Millions of LDS kids have seen Kirby’s movies and now they see him in a beer commercial promoting beer and at the end even picking one up. If you can’t see what’s wrong with that I am sorry for you.

17 Jun 2008 @ 14:34 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

So you deflect the question with humor and rhetoric?

I answered your question, but in an effort to be clearer, yes, I think it is possible to have job that appears to be evil. I mean, should someone not sell bottled water because it looks like bottled vodka?

I used to work for a carpet cleaning company. We had to clean several bars in the city. I guess I should have told me boss I couldn’t come to work those times because my bishop might see me coming out of the bar. Is that the point you’re trying to make, Andy?

The gospel is one of peace, harmony, unity, and agreement.

And this quoted by someone who labelled me (or rather my stance whatever that is) as spiritually devoid. Odd.

Walter, the issue isn’t whether it’s wrong. It’s whether we should be the ones determining whether it is wrong.

17 Jun 2008 @ 14:37 | Permalink
rick said:

“Millions of LDS kids have seen Kirby’s movies.”

Millions? I mean, really?
A bit over-dramatic, no?

17 Jun 2008 @ 14:39 | Permalink
hyrum said:

You fellas really like to nit pick and argue don’t ya? Your trying so hard to look smart by making others look dumb that you don’t see how dumb you look. Get of your high horse and don’t be so contrary.

17 Jun 2008 @ 14:45 | Permalink
kay said:

The issue here is that you are all concernewd about the image an actor has on your children. maybe as parents you should take the time to talk to your children and see how they feel about this issue and let them know that because one person used bad judement they do not have to follow.

17 Jun 2008 @ 15:22 | Permalink
Bull Moose said:

kay, great idea!

Why not talk with your kids about this actor’s choice and see if it alters their choices?

Why not talk with your kids about proper role models and help them to evaluate choices made by peers and other public personas? (Of course, “evaluate” is another way of saying “judge”, but it is proper judgment, IMO. It is judging the behavior, not the person.)

I think parents sometimes abdicate too much responsibility for being role models to those in popular media, which is a shame considering how much control we have over their behavior.

I think it’s cool that I can tell my kids that James Valentine of Maroon 5 passed the sacrament to us when he was a deacon and we lived in the same ward. But I make sure to point out that while he is a talented and popular musician, he’s not a role model to them. He’s just trying to do the best he can with the choices he has made.

17 Jun 2008 @ 16:11 | Permalink
Dar said:

I teach my kids that if someone drinks, or holds alcohol, it doesn’t make them bad or less of a person than ANYONE else. It wouldn’t matter to them if it was JC himself in the commercial, because I have taught my kids that we are all equals and that we shouldn’t judge others.

It doesn’t matter to them which band members or “celebrities” are members of a particular religion because we are all just people. I want my kids to be individuals, not making choices based on what others are doing or not doing.

Who cares what people choose to do….it really shouldn’t matter.

17 Jun 2008 @ 22:20 | Permalink
kay said:

Thank you for your input. I’m glad we have this problem solved and can now move on to something worthy of our time.

18 Jun 2008 @ 06:50 | Permalink
100years said:

I am extremely disapointed with Kirby Heyborne. I’m not condeming him to hell, but I do think it is ok to express my thoughts about Kirby’s decision. Even though Kirby doesn’t drink beer, I still think that promoting and endorsing it is wrong. I don’t understand why so many of these posts, particularly the ones from LDS people, are justifying Kirby’s decision. The way I see it,the prophets have told us not to watch R-rated movies because they contain immoral, profane, violent, and other images in them that offend the spirit of the Lord. Just because we might not actually do what we see in the movies doesn’t mean we should go watch R-rated movies. Kirby chose to promote beer. It wasn’t something he was obligated to do as when you work in a grocery store that sells beer as one of its products. It’s not like he is hard up for money, and even if he was does that make it right? Personally I think not. I would love to see an LDS actor who is a light to the world. Someone who doesn’t compromise his beliefs for money or whatever reason. I don’t think Kirby is an evil person, and I’m not saying that he is going to hell and I’m not. I’m simply expressing my thoughts. I have lost a great deal of respect for him.

18 Jun 2008 @ 11:47 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

No one is justifying his decision. We don’t need to. It isn’t ours to justify or not, and again he wasn’t breaking a commandment, whether he made a poor judgment choice is between him and the Lord, not he and his fan base.

18 Jun 2008 @ 12:42 | Permalink
kay said:

everyone has spent alot of time attempting to condemn this young man for his judement in excepting the job with the Miller Light advertisers. We all agree he make a bad decision. I sure would like to hear Kirby’s side of the story. Not that it would make it right, but perhaps understandable.

18 Jun 2008 @ 13:57 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Not everyone has condemned him and not everyone agrees he made a bad decision. That isn’t ours to make, as some of us are trying to say.

18 Jun 2008 @ 14:21 | Permalink
Ian M. Cook said:

http://www.mormontimes.com/MITN_entertainment.php?id=1282

There is a little bit of Kirbys side. I heard part of an interview with a local radio commentor too. I can’t find a transcript of that though.

18 Jun 2008 @ 14:22 | Permalink
Tyler M said:

Ok so we have had a lot of discussion relating to the appearance of evil and whether or not Kirby made the right choice. I am interested in a different thread on this discussion. What about those individuals who make money directly from products contrary to the teachings of the church. For example I am a partner in a Chartered Accounting firm. What if one of my clients were a strip joint should I refuse to do their books because of my moral stance? What if I owned that strip joint? My life is not that exciting I am just curious as to your opinions.

18 Jun 2008 @ 15:43 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

Good question, Tyler. That’s what I was trying to get at in an earlier comment. As a carpet cleaner, I had bars as clients. They paid us in “beer money”. Should we have refused the work?

When I worked for a courier, I often delivered to a casino in town. They paid the company in “poker money”. Should I have refused those runs?

18 Jun 2008 @ 16:55 | Permalink
wanders said:

I’m glad the moderator of this forum asked for our thoughts. It is extremely important for each of us to evaluate whether or not we think someone else’s choice is correct or not so that we can make correct choices ourselves.

As a youth leader, I would never ever allow an actor who appeared in a beer commercial to speak at a youth fireside unless he very publicly apologized for his piss-poor judgment and shockingly poor example to the youth of the world (not just the Church); beer ads target teens all the time.

I’ve always felt that beer advertisers were partly accountable for all the teen drunk driving deaths. And I will now lump this actor in that mix. Beer advertisers and the actors who choose to help them sell their deadly product are the conspiring men and women that the Lord warned against in the D&C.

What was this dill-weed thinking?

18 Jun 2008 @ 18:00 | Permalink
wanders said:

Did I just use the word “dill-weed?” That’s strange. Hmm… I heard that word this afternoon on an AT&T radio ad… I guess commercials can be influential!! What do you know? That would explain why marketers are willing to spend billions of dollars on ads each year.

18 Jun 2008 @ 18:05 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

I don’t see that name calling serves any purpose. He’s still a fellow child of God.

18 Jun 2008 @ 18:19 | Permalink
Ian M. Cook said:

Well, I guess it’s ok to own a strip joint. It’s not expressly forbidden as far as I can tell. As long as i’m not stripping or watching the strippers. I guess I could own a bar as well. As long as i’m not drinking. It would be hard to do porn, but as long as i’m not the one having sex or as long as I don’t watch people doing it, it’s ok.

I guess.

18 Jun 2008 @ 18:19 | Permalink
Jason said:

I find it extremely humorous that the parent of this post asked what people’s thoughts were about this commercial, and then proceeded to get up on her intellectual pedal stool to tell everyone that they’re wrong and judgmental (not that there isn’t truth there).

Why did you ask for people’s comments in the first place? You always seem to have to get the last word in with everyone. Seems more like you wanted to troll and flame, as opposed to really hearing the thoughts of others.

Just an observation. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s how it seems.

18 Jun 2008 @ 23:45 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

I find it extremely humourous that you think Kim was getting on a high horse (by completely misinterpreting words) and second of all that you automatically think he is a ‘she’. Also he hasn’t had the last word :)

19 Jun 2008 @ 04:19 | Permalink
JM said:

I’d like to hear either Kim, Mary, or zMormon answer my question in #62 since they both claim that nothing he did would keep him from having a temple recommend.

19 Jun 2008 @ 09:13 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Re #62 I don’t know what he answered, but wonder how the beer company is against the church in what particular? Not saying it isn’t or is. You would have to ask Kirby. He may not respond as I hear he is getting a lot of emails, but perhaps his assistant will if s/he is privy to Kirby’s private conversations with his Bishop or SP member.

19 Jun 2008 @ 09:22 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:
That’s a different question than what I have been asked, JM. Nevertheless, if it were me in Kirby’s place and that specific question was asked of me, I would explain the situation and let the bishop make the call.

That being said, I don’t know that he affiliated with Miller, using a strict definition.
- To adopt or accept as a member, subordinate associate, or branch.
- To associate (oneself) as a subordinate, subsidiary, employee, or member.
- To assign the origin of.
- To become closely connected or associated.
Regarding “supporting”, I think it is even less clear. One could argue that Miller supported Kirby since they paid him.
19 Jun 2008 @ 09:22 | Permalink
JM said:

Wow!

19 Jun 2008 @ 09:26 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Not sure if I answered you? Yes, the company is an alcohol company, but I have to wonder (as I keep asking) why Kirby is being held to a higher standard than other members of the church. I can’t count how many people work in gas stations which sell cigarettes (just as verboten as alcohol), or work in casinos or restaurants where alcohol is served.

But we might argue that eating healthy is just as important (as it seems to signify in D &C 89) as abstaining from alcohol and cigarettes, but people certainly aren’t dragged over the coals for eating at fast food restaurants. Quite the opposite actually, as youth activities often end up at Wendy’s or McDonald’s.

19 Jun 2008 @ 09:31 | Permalink
JM said:

Still haven’t.

My question isn’t about what other people are doing. Nor is it about the effects of the word of wisdom. It’s about how he could answer the temple recommend question honestly.

I have no problem with anybody appearing in any sort of commercial for anything. I have no problem with people drinking beer (unless they choose to drive thereafter with a blood alcohol level over the legal limit).

Mr. Heyborne talks about supporting his family. I have no problem with that either, even if he were to star in a porn film as the “Main Talent”. That’s his choice.

My issue is with his lack of honesty.

He claims that by being an actor in this commercial, he still thinks of himself worthy to hold a temple recommend.

One of the questions one is asked in a temple recommend interview is:

“Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?”

So, first I’ll ask, does the Miller brewing company have any teachings or practices contrary to or oppose those accepted by the COJCOLDS?

I’m pretty sure any reasonable person, knowing the teachings and practices of the LDS church and the product line of the Miller brewing company would answer yes. If I’m wrong, please, show me how.

Assuming we all agree on that, the next question is whether or not Mr. Heyborne supports, affiliates with, or agrees with the Miller Brewing company.

My understanding is yes. He hits at least two out of three. I argue that he supports and affiliates with them.

By definition, he supports them:

“to maintain (a person, family, establishment, institution, etc.) by supplying with things necessary to existence; provide for”

By assisting them in advertising their product, he provides them with the revenue necessary for corporate existence. That’s why they advertise. Without advertising, they risk going broke.

By definition, he affiliates with them:

“to associate oneself; be intimately united in action or interest”

His association and affiliation with their produce creates brand recognition, aiding in the advertisment of their product.

Although those words have other meanings as well, his association fits within a reasonable definition of those terms.

You can’t appear in a beer commercial, promote the product, entice other people to buy and consume it, and answer no to that temple recommend question in good conscience.

In all his interviews, if he would have just left out the temple recommend bit, there’d be no problem.

19 Jun 2008 @ 11:32 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

Two comments.

First off. I don’t know where you keep getting that question, but none of my bishops have ever asked that exact question.

Secondly, you state:

It’s about how he could answer the temple recommend question honestly.

What makes you think he didn’t answer the question honestly (even if it was the one you assert)? None of us on here have any idea what he said when his bishop asked the question, so we really have no accurate way of determining how honest he was in answering the question.

Like I said I would do if I were in his position, it is entirely possible he said neither yes or no. It is possible when asked the question, he simply explained the situation and let the bishop make the judgement call on whether he met the requirements of that part of the interview.

Of course, as I said already, I wasn’t present, so I have no idea of knowing whether he responded in that way. I am left to speculate, and simply offer it as one possible explanation.

Which of course brings me back to the point I have made several times above. It’s not up to me to determine how he was able to get his temple recommend while being in the commercial. But he did, so it must be possible. It’s not up to me to determine whether what he did was wrong. On both counts, it’s between him and the Lord (or the bishop in the case of the recommend).

We can speculate all we want. I mean, maybe he was dishonest, and he has a corrupt bishop who is letting the dishonesty slip under the table. Maybe he’s giving the bishop a payoff from his huge salary.

The bottom line though is that this is between Kirby and the Lord. If he’s worked it out with the Lord, then who am I to judge further?

19 Jun 2008 @ 12:28 | Permalink
JM said:

Then why ask what we think about the situation?

19 Jun 2008 @ 13:00 | Permalink
kay said:

In answer to JM I have to agree with the fact that no one knows or at least should not know what took place or what may have been said between Kirby and his Bishop during Kirby’s Temple recommend review.
This is a very private interview But I cannot think for one minute that the Bishop would be anything other than an honest person serving in this calling.And lets remember it is not just his decision.
Kirby still had to talk with the Stake Presidency. Or Maybe they are all unworthy of their callings also.PLEASE!
This whole issue is between Kirby and Heavenly Father and as I said in #71 The Church does teach forgiveness!

19 Jun 2008 @ 13:14 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

JM

So he could generate discussion (and look at that, it worked).

I concur with Kim, which was my point right from the start.

19 Jun 2008 @ 13:25 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

To generate discussion. I apologize for not making that clearer.

I asked for the thoughts of the readers, and they provided them (you included).

I don’t see how his decision’s being between him and the Lord negates anyone discussing what he did. Certainly much of what we discussed in more than 100 comments hasn’t been covered in any news article.

I think there is value in much of what has been discussed.

19 Jun 2008 @ 13:35 | Permalink
Bull Moose said:

Re: 102:

Corbin Allred, who also appeared in Saints and Soldiers as well as another LDS-themed film with Kirby Heyborne, was in a Wendy’s commercial as a lucky fellow “stuck in the middle” between two beautiful women while eating his bacon double cheeseburger. Is that on par with the Miller Lite ad given your interpretation of D & C 89?

But if either of them had appeared in the Wendy’s “Air Supply Burger” commercial, they’d be my heroes for life. Yuk, yuk, yuk.

19 Jun 2008 @ 17:45 | Permalink
Sedz said:

By JM’s standards, can anyone answer that recommend interview question in the affirmative? Why just this morning, I bought a quart of oil from a gas station that sells alcohol and tobacco products. By so doing, I gave my support (in the total of $3.50) to an organization whose practices are contrary to the teachings of the church. Guess I’ll have to surrender my recommend to my bishop tonight. (I’ll have to walk to his house instead of drive, as I don’t know where I’m going to find gas ever again.) Can I go to the grocery store and buy food made by a large conglomerate that includes beer and tobacco companies? Hmmm. Probably need to expand my garden….

Next, I’ll have to review my mutual funds and make sure that the portfolios don’t have any investments in companies that make or sell tobacco or alcohol. While I’m at it, I should probably make sure that none of those companies make or sell bikinis, advertise or do other business on Sundays, or print or distribute any material that has profane language (just to name a few examples).

Where does it end?

Oh No! I just realized – I have to quit my job, as the company I work for provides internet services 24×7. I wonder if the boss will be willing to change the business plan to 24×6?

On the other hand, I clearly have been too lax in asking those questions when members of my ward ask me to renew their recommend.

OK, I’m done now….

19 Jun 2008 @ 18:08 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

:) My point, thanks Sedz (I take it you are in the Bishopric).

Though I don’t think JM was being critical.

19 Jun 2008 @ 18:24 | Permalink
dpc said:

The only thing more disturbing than Kirby Heyborne selling out to the U.S. brewery industry is his co-star from “Saints and Soldiers”, Larry Bagby, selling out to Kentucky Fried Chicken!

20 Jun 2008 @ 10:00 | Permalink
Dar said:

I don’t believe that anyone has “sold out”….they are doing their jobs. He hasn’t done anything wrong. (And I love how people are deciding what is right and wrong…or good and bad) Everyone knows that on their own. They don’t need someone else telling what is supposedly the difference.

Also, the whole temple recommend thing. I have never been to one an interview/ interrogation, however…I have heard some of the questions that are asked. Well, if you are going to get technical maybe no one should hold a recommend. Is anyone perfect??

I mean, come on Jesus drank wine, and probably with his 12 Homeboys to boot. Perhaps that carving should be removed from the temple in Cardston as well.

PS. I have no problem with Wine Drinkers to set the record straight.

20 Jun 2008 @ 11:53 | Permalink
Bull Moose said:

And I love how people are deciding what is right and wrong…or good and bad[.] Everyone knows that on their own.

(sarcasm alert!)Rriiight. Because we all agree on what is right and wrong/good and bad. That’s why there’s no need for law enforcement … or even laws!

Well, if you are going to get technical maybe no one should hold a recommend. Is anyone perfect??

For me, if I am not looking at the painting of the Savior on the wall and not welled up with gratitude and humility for my frailties by the last question, knowing full well that the only way I am worthy to enter the temple is through the atonement, then I can’t answer affirmatively.

I believe that the introspection is necessary when we consider the obedience required to obtain the blessings of the temple. Yes, we all fall short. But, the questions are intended to get us to determine our commitment to the Savior and his commandments.

Dar, the question isn’t about wine, it’s about our commitment. Are we willing to do all that we can do to keep the commandments? If we have done all we can do, we can rely on the atonement to make the difference. And if the person has had struggles, it is up to the Bishop and no one else to make that determination.

20 Jun 2008 @ 12:12 | Permalink
kay said:

O.K. I admit it, I’m out of the loop! What is the KFC deal?

20 Jun 2008 @ 12:38 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

I think DPC is being tongue in cheek.

20 Jun 2008 @ 18:44 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

So here’s a related question, and it sort of goes back to what Tyler was asking. The contractor renovating our basement smokes. If we let him smoke, does that mean we are supporting someone whose practices are contrary to those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Is letting him smoke jeopardizing our having recommends?

20 Jun 2008 @ 19:29 | Permalink
kay said:

Kim, it is my feeling that anyone who enters my home need respect my feelings of not Smoking in my home. I can’t control what they do away from my home but I feel I have a right to control what happens at my home. If not then I would check into a new contractor. It would not effect my recomend unless I encouraged him to smoke in the first place. Good Luck.

20 Jun 2008 @ 20:24 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

He doesn’t smoke in our home, he just smokes.

He’s a wonderful contractor and we wouldn’t want to lose him just because he smokes cigarettes.

21 Jun 2008 @ 09:00 | Permalink
Dar said:

Bull:

Actually, Law Enforcement is there to enforce the laws set. Not to tell people what is good or bad. People make decisions on their own, and know that if they make a bad choice there will be consequences.

People know that killing, stealing, and such is wrong (bad). However, some choose to do that. In a perfect world, people would focus more on the good, but…

We don’t need someone to tell us the difference.

It is all these little things in the LDS religion that someone is deciding are wrong/bad that gets me. This is not a bad thing.

We should all do things that we know or feel are good and right…not because someone says they are, or because they show “commitment”, or they will get us to a higher degree of glory, or because we are following some one’s example.

22 Jun 2008 @ 01:38 | Permalink
kay said:

Don’t you all feel we have really milked this subject dry? We need to move on now!

22 Jun 2008 @ 11:08 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

All you have to do is not comment and go comment on another post. It isn’t the top post anymore.

22 Jun 2008 @ 13:21 | Permalink
mormonmama said:

It really isn’t our responsibility to pass judgement. That being said, we are all going to have feelings or opinions. I feel disappointed in this career choice. I understand needing to support a family, however – in my opinion, living your faith is priority number one if you are a member of the church. I know we must decide what is best for our family, however one doesn’t HAVE to be an actor. One also may choose to be an actor, and still perform other jobs in between acting jobs. Also, to those who compared this to playing a character in a movie – the difference is, a movie tells a story. In a commercial, you are helping a company to promote and sell their product. In this case a product which our faith tells us to avoid. I still like Kirby. I will still support his projects. It doesn’t mean I have to approve of every choice he makes in his life. I also still think he is a fine, upstanding member of the church.

23 Jun 2008 @ 19:07 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

one doesn’t HAVE to be an actor.

Likewise, one doesn’t HAVE to be a doctor, and thus COULD avoid having to work Sundays. Same goes for police officers. Expounding on that idea, perhas there shouldn’t be any Mormon firefighters, paramedics, nurses or pilots. Pilots. Hmmm…I wonder if President Uchtdorf ever had a Sunday flight. For that matter, I wonder if any of President Uchtdorf’s flights served alcohol or showed R-rated movies. Would that consistent supporting someone whose practices are contrary to those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

23 Jun 2008 @ 19:13 | Permalink
mormonmama said:

Your comments might carry a little more weight if every profession/responsibility you named wasn’t completely incongruous with acting in a beer commercial. All the above named jobs are life-saving, humanity-serving professions which by their nature make them in line with the gospel of Jesus Christ, and which society couldn’t survive without, 24 hours a day. There isn’t a realistic alternative to flying the friendly skies in order to build the Kingdom. There is a realistic alternative to acting in a beer commercial when jobs are few and far between for an LDS actor. Again, none of us, including myself is in a position to judge. I still can feel disappointed, and have my opinion on what may have been a better choice.

23 Jun 2008 @ 19:30 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

I’m not saying they’re not important or life saving. I’m just pointing out that it’s not as simple as saying that Mormons shouldn’t take jobs that compromise principles. After all living our faith is priority number one. Saving lives shouldn’t take precedence over keeping the Sabbath holy, right?

But some non-essential examples could include grocers who sell cigarettes or alcohol, photographer who shoot bridal cleavage, and taxi drivers who work Sundays. The list goes on.

23 Jun 2008 @ 19:50 | Permalink
mormonmama said:

Saving lives is not breaking the sabbath. Even the Savior healed people on the Sabbath. Living our faith is priority number one, yes. Obviously serving mankind is one of the most Christ-like acts one can perform. Understanding the spirit of the law, not looking for how something might contradict the letter of the law is something we all must strive for.

Also, the other examples you named, grocer, photographer, etc., in my opinion are professions that either don’t need to be practiced in a way contrary to the teachings of the gospel, or if they must be – then should be avoided by Latter-day Saints. I happen to know from experience that it can be done. My husband and I own a service business. Ther is a market for our services on Sundays, most of our competitors provide this same service on Sunday. We have chosen to never do business on Sunday. We have lost several jobs to our competitors when someone has wanted to schedule us for a Sunday job. However, our business and our family has been abundantly blessed, and in our opinion this is a direct result of our commitment to run our business in accordance with the teachings of our church.

23 Jun 2008 @ 20:41 | Permalink
TOY ZKULPTOR said:

I am a toy sculptor, I am also a freelancer, which means sometimes I have to work more than I should in order to earn a living, I TRY, not to work on Sundays EVER. I also TRY not to take on any projects that compromise my principles, BUT sometimes I have had to work on Sundays, and sometimes I have had to sculpt super heroines with skin tight clothes, I also have plenty of anatomy books with naked people in them, and lots of reference for the nude male/female body. I have been criticized by fellow church members, saying that what I do is wrong, that taking life drawing classes with real models is wrong.

I do not see the human body the way most people do, I am an artist and as such I must learn every part of the human body.
I love my job, and you know? I know God is happy for me, he is pleased with the fact I provide for my own family, and am able to help people going on missions, and that I can provide 5 more people with work and I say this with the utmost humility.
Honestly… I would rather sculpt the life of Christ, or the Apostles…The Lord know that is my biggest desire, but although I gave it my best, I was never able to earn a living doing that.

I am NOT saying I defend either side of the coin, but I honestly think WE SHOULD NOT JUDGE Kirby. We do not know the reason behind his choice. It seems once we see someone make a mistake, or do something that is not “right” we are extremely quick to label them.
Am I going to hell because I have sculpted Dragon Ball Z characters that portray violence? I will be judged for many things… I just KNOW that won’t be one of them :)
Just my two cents.
-Erick Sosa
http://www.ericksosa.com
http://www.thesculptorscorner.com/Sosa.htm

24 Jun 2008 @ 01:10 | Permalink
TOY ZKULPTOR said:

By the way, I am 32 ( one year older than Kirby) I am married ( LA Temple) And I live in Los Angeles…and like Kirby says “”If I could do those for the rest of my life, and make enough money to support my family, I would do that in a heartbeat,” the Mormon film star said in a phone interview Monday. “But in reality, there’s no way.”
I would rather sculpt Mormon Missionaries action figures…but in reality, there’s no way ;)

24 Jun 2008 @ 01:16 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

mormonmama

For the record, my husband and I do not break the sabbath for our employment either and have declined to work on Sunday always. We have never felt the need to work Sundays, but don’t condemn those who choose to do so.

24 Jun 2008 @ 06:34 | Permalink
Erick Sosa said:

I agree with you Mary :)
But in 15 years I have been a sculptor and a member of the church, I have probably worked 3 times on the Sabbath.
I have two daughters btw, 3year old and a 3 month old, I know I must lead them by example :)

24 Jun 2008 @ 08:15 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Erick

Sometimes the ox is in the mire!! :)

24 Jun 2008 @ 08:29 | Permalink
Erick Sosa said:

true :)

24 Jun 2008 @ 08:46 | Permalink
kay said:

I come from a long line of law enforcement officers and health care providers in my family. We have had to work alot on Sundays. I can say that part of that work was provided by the breweries. Drunk drivers, family fights etc. Not only the officers and EMTs but the E.R Staff as well. We were there to care for those in need. On Sunday. And We did not get to go to church. But we still kept our faith.

24 Jun 2008 @ 16:53 | Permalink
Ian M. Cook said:

I’m afraid that comparing law inforcement/health care workers etc. to actors in commercials just isn’t a valid comparison. If all the actors quit their jobs because they didn’t want to appear in beer commercials or work on Sunday, it really wouldn’t be a big loss, the same can’t be said of the other group.

No one was trying to make the comparison.

25 Jun 2008 @ 09:40 | Permalink
El Mero Mero said:

My grandfather once told me that the weeds always grow bigger in your own backyard. And the roots go deeper. As an LDS member, RM, BYU grad, etc, etc. I’m saddened that so many members, especially some of you on this blog, are so judgmental and quick to criticize. You should read Orson Scott Card’s article in rebuttal to the “news” of Kirby’s most unfortunate decision to thrust the “world view” of the LDS church into darkness. Yes…..that was sarcastic!!! Read the article and then get a life, please! Enjoy!

26 Jun 2008 @ 07:22 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

El Mero Mero

Most of the bloggers (actually contributers) you will see do NOT judge Kirby. The judgments are coming from commenters not affiliated with the blog.

26 Jun 2008 @ 08:36 | Permalink
Anonymous said:

I don’t judge kirby. I’m just a little dissapointed. I’m about to go on a mission, so when i saw “the best two years” for the first time i almost cried, because of the spirit i felt from that movie. Joseph Smith, and many other prophets have told us time and time again that our testimonies and example are what help bring the spirit and share the gospel. it just takes some integrity to say no to commercials like that. He has his free will, but the point is what he does with it. We are children of God first, not children of this temporal world.

i will still watch movies with him. he is really good. i don’t think anyone can disagree with me there.

26 Jun 2008 @ 20:40 | Permalink
Erick Sosa said:

“it takes some integrity” it sounds to me like you are judging his integrity..right?
Honestly , the guy is an actor, he had no money, and had prayed with his wife, he got an answer, it helped him support his family for half a year.
Listen, he just made a Hershey’s commercial, I hope people don’t start pointing the finger because he did that, because you know Chocolate contains Caffeine.
I myself am working on an Ironman toy, but maybe I should call Hasbro and say, “you know what I will not sculpt this toy because I cannot be a part of something that promotes violence, because Ironman does kill more than a couple of people in the movie ”
Not everything is black and white, there’s shades of grey. that is why we have the spirit of the law :) which should also be applied when judging as the Lord has commanded… be a righteous judge :)

I was honestly a bit disappointed myself, but then I realized maybe that was his only gig in months, and guess what it was.
Now that you are going on a mission you will realize that things are not just two shades, you will get to know people and their circumstances and you will learn to love them regardless of color, race, mistakes etc.
I love Kirby, and if I were to Meet him at the LA temple I would tell him he’s alright by me.
:)

26 Jun 2008 @ 20:54 | Permalink
dpc said:

As a follow-up to my comment at #112 (which was made tongue in cheek), Larry Bagby (or an actor who bears a striking resemblence) has recently starred (had a supporting role…?) in a commercial for Kentucky Fried Chicken.

I’m just worried that very soon Corbin Benson (another Saints and Soldiers actor)may end up in a commercial of some kind!

27 Jun 2008 @ 09:43 | Permalink
Dar said:

dpc…

“I’m just worried that very soon Corbin Benson (another Saints and Soldiers actor)may end up in a commercial of some kind!”

Why are you worried? What if he does do a commercial of “some kind”? What is it to you?

He is an actor. It is not your place to worry what jobs he takes.

27 Jun 2008 @ 10:07 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

He’s being sarcastic, Dar.

27 Jun 2008 @ 10:22 | Permalink
23Desk said:

I would just like to know what everyone’s deffinition of “judging” is. It seems that there is a lot of disagreement on this, because people keep accusing each other, all throughout this blog, of “judging” Kirby.

28 Jun 2008 @ 19:17 | Permalink
Panda said:

I think this article by Elder Oaks offers A LOT of insights to the issue everyone is discussing. Check it out! http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=bd27ef960417b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

2 Jul 2008 @ 17:21 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Well, I am not sure that it does. The issue we are discussing is whether we have a right to judge or condemn Kirby for this choice, not whether what he did was right or wrong. I don’t see where Elder Oaks told us it is ok to lambaste and vilify someone for their choice in employment. He is saying we should uphold our standards, which I agree with. But that doesn’t mean I should condemn someone for making a choice I would not necessarily make.

2 Jul 2008 @ 17:39 | Permalink
ltbugaf said:

Kim, in answer to comment 64, I never said “picking up a bottle of beer or starring in a beer commercial” was breaking a commandment. I said having a beer would be a sin for me as a Latter-day Saint, and not for someone who isn’t under covenant to live the prohibitions of the Word of Wisdom.

2 Jul 2008 @ 22:37 | Permalink
anonymous said:

I served my mission in the Dominican Republic from 95-97 with Kirby. He was not a good missionary. While in the final weeks of his mission there was some inappropiate behavior between Kirby and a sister missionary. When it was discovered she had her mission changed. He was already released by that time. One local member confided in me that her sister and another local member had made out with Kirby. There are many more mission rule violations which are attributed to him, even while serving as AP. There are many missionaries including myself who feel that he is responsible for ruining their mission experience.

7 Jul 2008 @ 17:43 | Permalink
Jason Seawright said:

Anonymous, hey, how are things? Drop me an email at roastedtomatoes at gmail dot com; we can catch up on gossip from the mission and since!

7 Jul 2008 @ 17:51 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Anonymous (#147)

First of all, why would you even say this? Not only that, it’s only your word for it and you don’t even bother signing your name which leads me to think you are just promoting gossip. Whether Kirby made mistakes or not is not yours or mine or anyone else’s business. And one missionary cannot ruin your own experience. We are all responsible for our own attitudes and actions reactions. As long as you served the best you could that is what is important to you. Don’t blame him or anyone else for a bad mission experience. My husband had a companion who smoked (yes, while on his mission). And knew of other quirky missionaries, but that didn’t ruin his mission experience. He served as well as he could and was a wonderful missionary. So stop blaming someone else for your problems.

Really, it was absolutely unnecessary to say those things. That was 11-13 years ago and people are allowed to repent and move on with their lives without having their pasts brought up (if it is even true).

7 Jul 2008 @ 17:55 | Permalink
Jason Seawright said:

Mary, I agree that the anonymous accusation on a website isn’t a helpful forum for this sort of thing. Let me suggest, though, that there are huge differences in human experiences. Smoking on a mission is one thing, but one can imagine a lot worse. Some empathy for anonymous may perhaps be in order.

7 Jul 2008 @ 18:05 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Well, no I don’t agree, sorry. If he feels the need to bring it up after all of these years then he needs to get over it. That was just one experience I have shared. I have a friend who left his mission for a woman, totally devastated his family in this choice and was excommunicated. He later repented, went through the long process of coming back to the church, being re-baptised and having his priesthood restored. He married a wonderful woman and is the father of a fine family (he had previously married this other woman but that ended up in divorce), has been in Bishoprics and served faithfully and honourably in years since. It would serve NO purpose to bring up past mistakes. I would think and hope that his mission companions would be gratified to see a brother missionary return to full fellowship rather than bring up past grievances.

It still smacks of gossip, and if Kirby Heyborne, who is a real live person and not just a celebrity (I always wonder why people feel justified in picking apart celebrities as if they are inanimate objects) were to come across this, he would justifiably feel shamed that someone would bring this up (if it were true) or horrified that someone would make up something like this.

7 Jul 2008 @ 18:21 | Permalink
Joshua Kingery said:

I used to be a mormon, but left the church a few years ago. I think Kirby Heyborne is a brillant actor and I’m glad Kirby did this commercial, because now non-mormons can see how most mormon act. Judge everybody except yourself, lol. Love you Kirby! Don’t let mormons make you feel bad for taking care of your forever family!

7 Jul 2008 @ 18:28 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Most Mormons pick up bottles of beer? Hmmmm….

7 Jul 2008 @ 18:33 | Permalink
Joshua Kingery said:

Nooooo…. I didn’t mean most mormons pick up bottles of beer, I meant mormons spend to much time judging. But, it does sadden me that a mormon would eat a box of donuts and wash it down with some sugared down soda, but down someone who drinks a beer. Btw I’m vegan and drink a beer occasionally, but thats off topic. Poor Kirby, personally I have nothing against the mormons just cause im not one anymore, but Kirby seems like a great guy. Just because he would do something like that to put food on the table for his family. In the end all you will have is your family.

7 Jul 2008 @ 18:40 | Permalink
J. Nelson-Seawright said:

Mary, I’m not quite sure I’ve gotten my point across. Let me just say that there are bad acts that poison lives and that linger long after they are committed. Such acts can’t be repented of in private; the victims know if the perpetrator has repented because he will have sought them out. If Anonymous has suffered such acts, then the analogies you offer are weak soup indeed and one might find a way to reach out to Anonymous with a bit of charity and human kindness.

7 Jul 2008 @ 18:46 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

I knew what you were saying, I was being facetious. Actually you would see a pretty even balance of LDS NOT blaming or judging and some who ARE. So no, MOST ‘Mormons’ do not judge. Some do, yes. But that’s a human failing rather than a strictly LDS one.

Donuts and pop are gross and sugary and crap. I am a vegetarian, a nutritional copnsultant, don’t eat refined sugar or junk food. But I don’t think people who eat crap are evil.

As many of us have said, Kirby was doing a job, whether we agree with that choice or not is not even the issue, it’s not ours to make.

7 Jul 2008 @ 18:47 | Permalink
J. Nelson-Seawright said:

I’d also note that Anonymous obviously sees Heyborne as a real person and not a celebrity-object; Anonymous presents himself as having known Heyborne when he wasn’t a celebrity at all.

7 Jul 2008 @ 18:47 | Permalink
Joshua Kingery said:

:( why must we be guilted to death for living and dying? sheesh people.

7 Jul 2008 @ 18:48 | Permalink
Joshua Kingery said:

Well, I’m done typing lol. I love Kirby just as much as all you guys and gals on here so hugs and kisses for everyone, mormon or not! blows kisses and hugs to everyone

7 Jul 2008 @ 18:51 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Re:# 155

And all I was saying is that he needs to move on. There have been actions of others in my own life that were rather devastating (one took me 2 years to forgive) but I don’t go on about it, bringing up someone else’s past mistakes. And that’s why I take exception to anonymous bringing up Kirby’s sins or failings not in an ‘anonymous’ way, which he only did for himself, but in a highly public way. Just another thing to curse Kirby for.

Whether he knew him or not, he feels justified in picking him apart (a lot of people seem to like doing this to Kirby and others). As well, we can’t blame other people for our own choices or reactions in life.

7 Jul 2008 @ 18:53 | Permalink
J. Nelson-Seawright said:

Mary, I understand what you’re saying. It’s simply that you don’t necessarily understand the full details of this case. I don’t want to get into anything in public; please email me (roastedtomatoes at gmail dot com) to talk about this more. I don’t mean to say that I want people shouting our sins from the rooftops, but rather that your comments reflect a very incomplete understanding of the situation and there are quite substantial mitigating circumstances for Anonymous’s public disclosure here.

7 Jul 2008 @ 19:00 | Permalink
Joshua Kingery said:

Uh oh. Fight fight fight fight. lol i kid i kid

7 Jul 2008 @ 19:22 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

I know, I am not saying I understand the full details, but I don’t need to, and I don’t see the need to discuss what Kirby did or did not do privately. But perhaps if you can explain why he felt the need to say this things in a public forum, alright, I will email you about it.

Joshua, we aren’t children, we are not fighting, this is normal debate (well, in a manner of speaking).

7 Jul 2008 @ 19:25 | Permalink
Joshua Kingery said:

Oh I know. I’m just glad some people got their heads on straight in here. i.e. you, lol.

7 Jul 2008 @ 19:40 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Anonymous

I understand better now, and I apologise for berating you, though I still think it would be better in a private manner. I do hope you get the healing you need.

7 Jul 2008 @ 20:13 | Permalink
Eric Russell said:

What a bizarre conversation.

“Such acts can’t be repented of in private; the victims know if the perpetrator has repented because he will have sought them out. If Anonymous has suffered such acts”

JNS, what on earth does this have to do with anything? Posting stuff your companion did that was wrong on a public forum while identifying who that person is is inappropriate behavior. End of story. I would hope that someone who insisted on doing such a thing at BCC would be banned. Especially when that person is well known – it’s pure gossip. Why do the full details matter? I don’t care if Kirby raped his mother. Making anonymous public accusations is wrong.

7 Jul 2008 @ 20:15 | Permalink
Steve Evans said:

“I would hope that someone who insisted on doing such a thing at BCC would be banned”

Heck Eric, that’s easy to say — our banning thresholds are unbelievably low!

PS ixnay re: Kirby raped his mother.

7 Jul 2008 @ 20:31 | Permalink
Dar said:

I totally agree with Eric….there is no need to bring anything else into this discussion. It isn’t going to change my feelings on the post.

I really don’t care what he did, does, or will do?

7 Jul 2008 @ 20:40 | Permalink
Erick Sosa said:

I remember when I got to the mission field I was appalled, before my mission in a very innocent way I thought all missionaries were angels, I remember I was the only missionary at the Mexcio MTC that was not crying, that’s how happy I was, when I got to the mission field, I realized they were young people trying to fill in very big shoes, my first companion and the whole zone were doing really bad things, I almost escaped out of that house where we lived…. almost…but then I found a way around the issue, and we started working…. blackmail is awesome… just kidding, I told my companion I would just go home if things stayed the same, next day we were working really hard :)
I had no plans to go home, but the spirit told me to say that, and it worked, I do not hate Elder Holtby, I am sure he is doing great now :)

7 Jul 2008 @ 22:01 | Permalink
J. Nelson-Seawright said:

Eric, just be careful. The waters are deeper here than you think they are. It’s easy to blame the wrong people; it’s a motes and beams question in this case, I’m afraid.

8 Jul 2008 @ 03:53 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Hmm, trying this again. Annonymous. I apologise for berating you, I understand now. However it would have been best taken in a private arena. I hope you get the healing you need.

8 Jul 2008 @ 04:02 | Permalink
Eric Russell said:

Deeper than raping his mother?! Holy crap. Look, if Anonymous needs to file a police report, than I recommend doing so. But whatever the case may be, a vague anonymous public accusation is most certainly not an appropriate course of action.

8 Jul 2008 @ 14:18 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Eric

No he shouldn’t have posted that here, but there are reasons you aren’t aware of so let’s just leave it alone.

8 Jul 2008 @ 14:37 | Permalink
Erick Sosa said:

Actually this guy has been posting on other places the same exact post…. mmm… I understand he must be hurt, but that won’t help either.

8 Jul 2008 @ 14:44 | Permalink
J. Nelson-Seawright said:

Erick, I’ve got to agree on that. Anonymous, if you’re reading this, let’s talk privately — spreading this around on a bunch of internet sites isn’t likely to accomplish much good for anybody.

8 Jul 2008 @ 15:29 | Permalink
Brian Duffin said:

I’m extremely disappointed in Kirby. Seriously, Miller? Next time, please pick a better brew! :-)

8 Jul 2008 @ 16:36 | Permalink
anonymous said:

I have 2 main reasons in my previous post, both of which I recognize are “carnally-minded” and not good reasons to defame a person’s character. I am generally a kind, forgiving person and he is the only person I have ever hated. I have had a hard time forgiving him for the damage he caused to myself, the members in the mission, and others in the mission field. Without going into further detail about the things that went on, there was severe damage done that still effects peoples lives today.
The 2nd reason is because he has developed a reputation based on a false presentation of character. it really doesn’t matter to me how he earns his living, but the part I don’t agree with is the admiration by fans that is based on a lie. I think it is unfortunate that someone becomes a role model to youth for being good at sports or acting, when their personal lives don’t deserve the same respect. This applies to many celebrities.
Having said that, I don’t know whether he has repented or not although I am inclined to believe he has not because those effected have not been sought out for an apology. I truly hope he does demonstrate proper remorse for the sake of his family and I continue to pray that those of us who haven’t been able to forgive him will find the peace we want. it wasn’t my intention to offend anyone here and I apologize if I have. There was probably a better way to handle this but I let my anger get in the way. I hope this explains my feelings and motives better.
Seawright, I will be in touch soon.

8 Jul 2008 @ 18:31 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

Brian, I have to agree. The thing is, he lives in the States, which means the odds are against him that one way or another it’d have to be an American beer. ;-)

8 Jul 2008 @ 19:12 | Permalink
Anonymous said:

LAZY MUNCIE, dunno… found it on youtube….. I am dissapointed :(

8 Jul 2008 @ 19:29 | Permalink
Dar said:

Anonymous…

I tell my children this all the time…we can’t blame anyone for our own unhappiness, bitterness, or anger. We are the only ones who control this. NO ONE ruins others lives, we control our own lives. You can’t blame “role models” or “celebrities”.

EVERYONE deserves respect.

If people are harbouring ill feelings, then of course they will never get over things. It doesn’t matter what he did or does, you all control how you will respond and behave, and I personally think that by attacking one’s character, having hatred for another human being, or by being an unforgiving person, then you all really shouldn’t be pointing any fingers or judging anyways.

If you don’t have peace within, you will never have peace with those around you. And you can’t blame anyone, but yourself for that.

And…seriously….disappointed in a you tube video. Come On!

You maybe need to go do some self-reflecting, meditating, soul searching, something.

8 Jul 2008 @ 21:41 | Permalink
Sharel said:

Dear Mary,

I think that people may be “dragging Kirby through the mud” only because he is the spotlight and is now unfortunately an “icon” in the LDS world. Not unfortunate because of his choices, but because we need no icons in our life.
I am a little confused with your comment about how Mormons just conveniently overlook Section 89 as to the Word of Wisdom. Eating twelve dozens doughnuts a day will not keep me out of the temple, but drinking my beer will. That is the difference.
And I am sorry if you did not say this, but people are banding about “judging” here and there. What Kirby did has no effect on my salvation, that is true…
But the scripture is translated “…Judge not unrighteously that ye be not judged: but judge a righteous judgment.” Matthew 7:1
That being said, we can all say what he should and shouldn’t have done, but at the end of the day, it is/was his decision and I am no judge in Israel (thank goodness!).
To everyone else,
Our main purpose is to bring people unto Christ. I hope that Kirby or anyone else can still feel loved in the gospel despite any choices he/she has made. He is a child of God and no matter what decisions he makes, we should still be able to call him brother and love him. Whether you consider what he did as a sin or not, we love the sinner, not the sin. I personally do not believe what he did was a sin.
Also, I hope we would be teaching our children to look up to the leadership of the church and Christ as our examples, so if a child does see something like this and has questions or is confused, they will know where to turn for answers.

10 Jul 2008 @ 13:15 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

Eating twelve dozens doughnuts a day will not keep me out of the temple, but drinking my beer will.

Which is sort of the point.

10 Jul 2008 @ 13:18 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Sharel

My comments regarding that is that in order to receive the full blessings promised in the Word of Wisdom, we need to follow it in its entirety, not just partly. This isn’t related to church policy, which requires us to follow the “do nots”. I fully accept that aspect of it, in regards to being worthy to attend the temple and such, but in order to truly understand and receive the fullness of the blessings in the Word of Wisdom, this takes much study and prayer and following it all. No, eating 12 dozen doughnuts a day won’t keep you out of the temple, but it will seriously damage your ‘own’ temple…your body, which we have been given from the Lord as an important stewardship. I am a Nutritional Consultant as well as a serious student of the Word of Wisdom and I know that the knowledge we have these days as well as from the scriptures tells us that if we do want the full (and most wonderful) blessings promised we need to follow it all. I don’t think we will be penalised by the Lord, per se (as far as being kept from exaltation), but the natural consequences are penalty enough in keeping us from the treasures of knowlege, the abundant health and other blessings stated. Our Father in Heaven has given us this wonderful, insightful (and it takes a lot of research and study and inspiration to delve into the depth of it, He doesn’t spell out every item we should or should not eat, He expects us to use proper discernment) counsel with a great promise and it’s up to us to follow through with it.

10 Jul 2008 @ 13:30 | Permalink
Sharel said:

I really never post comments, so I did not realize that my previous post would be so hard to read!

Yeah…sorry about that!

10 Jul 2008 @ 13:36 | Permalink
Sharel said:

Okay, Yes. I am fully aware that our bodies are temples and that we need to treat them right and that we need to study the scriptures and know that He does not spell out every thing that we need to do. I understand that we need to do a deeper study of the commandments and the scriptures daily to receive the fullness.
I wish I could do this face to face, because I gotta be honest. I think some of the things that are being said seem a little condescending.
For example:
(and it takes a lot of research and study and inspiration to delve into the depth of it, He doesn’t spell out every item we should or should not eat, He expects us to use proper discernment)
It truly sounds as if this is the first time I would have heard it.
I think that we should also have compassion for those who are at a different “conversion” level on any subject of the gospel.
You may know the Word of Wisdom backwards and forwards inside and out and a lot you could teach me I am sure, yet there may be something I could teach you about something else in the gospel. I would hope that we have patience for those different “conversion levels” that we are all at.

10 Jul 2008 @ 13:48 | Permalink
Sharel said:

Excuse the bad grammar on my last sentence!

10 Jul 2008 @ 13:52 | Permalink
Sharel said:

Arggg….I mean in. Oh, just forget it….

10 Jul 2008 @ 13:55 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Sharel

Wow. Ok, sorry, it was not meant at all to be condescending. It’s meant as knowledge and you asked so I explained. And I am not saying in ANYWAY that I am perfect at this. This is a life long process. I am passionate about helping people with their health and nutrition because I know FIRST hand how hard it is. I have so much compassion for people, as I have been there. Honestly. And it is a long journey. But yes, I am passionate about the Word of Wisdom and I know everyone has their journey. You would understand this if you talked to me in person. All I am saying is that we, all of us (myself included, because I am not there yet) would receive all of these wonderful blessings if we fully followed it. Few, if any (including myself) completely do. It’s if we do, that the blessings are realised. One of my goals in life is to get to that point. But it’s one step at a time. If you were to check out my own journey (and heartache) to health, you would see exactly what I mean. I did not say, nor do I mean that I know everything about it. And certainly you could teach me something. Everyone has something to teach and offer. Ok, hope that makes sense now.

Let me just tell you that if I hadn’t paid attention to my nutrition I would have never had any more children and I would have diabetes and probably develop heart disease. I had to learn the hard way how important it was to take care of my health and as a NCP I am trying to save others that path. It’s not fun.

10 Jul 2008 @ 14:05 | Permalink
Sharel said:

See!? This is why I wanted a face to face! That makes a lot more sense! I am feelin’ the love now. Thank you and I am grateful that you have been able to have the blessings in your life that you do.
You sound as if you have a website that one could visit and if you do, I would be interested in looking at it.

10 Jul 2008 @ 14:19 | Permalink
Kirby said:

Hi guys,
Kirby here, I just want to say I did not want to cause such a fuss.
I hope I will be forgiven as it seems now I have to go online, on each public forum trying to shield myself from the attacks.
I had to feed my family !
I am not perfect and I have made mistakes, I am trying very hard to stay afloat. Please do try to be more sensitive to one another.
And hope one day I will be remembered as a guy trying hard to be good, and not as some sort of evil entity, out to bring souls to satan, remember this kind of attitude has driven many outside the church.
May we be granted enough clarity to sense why someone makes mistakes, and may then extend a helping hand.
Kirby Heyborne

10 Jul 2008 @ 15:54 | Permalink
Dar said:

Well Kirby…I don’t think you need to be forgiven, or justify what you did..

It is sad that people have made you feel so bad about your decisions. It is no body’s business.

10 Jul 2008 @ 20:38 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

I have an archived blog that explains my personal journey, if you are interested:

http://marysodyssey.blogspot.com/

you will have to go back some, to read what I have done. It’s been ages since I posted there.

10 Jul 2008 @ 20:58 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

Dar, I wouldn’t be too quick to address that commenter as Kirby. I am pretty sure it’s someone posing as Kirby.

11 Jul 2008 @ 08:29 | Permalink
Dar said:

Kim….(see how I respond to the commenter by their first name, regardless who they are)

I kind of assumed that it wasn’t the real Kirby, but non the less, it was a Kirby, and that is how I felt.

12 Jul 2008 @ 18:10 | Permalink
Erick Sosa said:

Hello Mary,
I have had heartburn non stop lately, and the I discovered this site
http://www.watercure.com and it has helped me feel so much better. I would like to correspond with you regarding the word of Wisdom, I am aware this is a very important matter now more than ever!
You see I suffer from migraines and would like to ask you a couple of questions.
my e-mail :
ericksosa@mac.com
thanks!

12 Jul 2008 @ 21:00 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Erick

Thanks for the site link. Please email me at kmsiever@gmail.com and I am more than willing to help you.

12 Jul 2008 @ 21:07 | Permalink
aaron said:

It’s his choice. What’s the big deal? Also, as stated in Comment #4 he portrayed smoking in a church movie and no one cared.

16 Jul 2008 @ 18:44 | Permalink
Anonymous said:

Go Kirby, chug one for me. I wonder how much he got paid to do this. Looser!

18 Jul 2008 @ 10:12 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

Looser than what?

18 Jul 2008 @ 10:16 | Permalink
Utah State employee pretending to be Kirby Heybourne said:

Hey guys, Kirby here. I really enjoyed the artistic approach that Budweisers took to this commercial it is why I took the role. I could feel a spirit about the director that was just so pure and delight full. It was the refreshing taste of Budweiser on his breath. On the set we enjoyed some refreshingly rich cold Buds. I never new how great life would be. So here’s to all you bastards judging me. This Buds for you. Go enjoy a cold one. You can repent later.

Love Kirby Heyborne

18 Jul 2008 @ 10:18 | Permalink
nannyg said:

“Looser than what?” LOL! This made me laugh.

Kim- thanks for staying on top of things. You’re awesome!!! I am grateful to you.
This crap is very upsetting to me. And you know what I’m talking about.

“Bud light”?? hahahaha

18 Jul 2008 @ 10:36 | Permalink
Patricia said:

I guess people are upset because they got dissappointed with their role model. That happens. I read an interview with Kirby and he did mention that he was going through some financial hardships when the offer came along. He saw it as a blessing from God and that He was watching over him. Some may see it as a blessing, others as a test of faith but it’s up to the person in the situation to decide.

There are many things that we don’t know about his life and especially what goes on in his heart. Sometimes the Lord asks us to do many crazy things that we are not sure why. I mean, imagine how Nephi felt when the Lord told him to kill Laban. Maybe this commercial was Kirby’s Laban. Or on the other hand, maybe it was a bad decision and he’ll suffer for it for a while because President Hinckley did say “avoid all appearance of evil.” But, and a big BUT we don’t know which case applies because it’s not our life, it’s not our heart, it’s not our career, bottom line is, it’s none of our business. I’m sure the Lord still loves him no matter what he does and He will still bless him because he is His child and who are we to crucify him for a commercial that soon we won’t even remember. Just as Christ said, those without sin cast the first stone…

30 Jul 2008 @ 07:34 | Permalink
Sally Haysom said:

HOLY COW!! Gee all this time I thought people did as I did during commercials.. get up and do something else for 3 minutes… I had to ask who this Kirby was from another of Kim’s posts.

62 here is my answer to you.. “Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?”

I worked as a nurse and then at a hotel as a hotel controller for many years which meant I worked a lot of Sundays, so technically it must have meant I supported a group whose teachings went against the teachings of the Church in regards to keeping the Sabbath Day holy.

As for all the comments stating disappointments for this man’s commercial, are you kidding me??? When did we start living in glass houses? Do we really have nothing better to teach our children/grandchildren other then the merits of one man’s commercial?

As for the supposedly millions of kids watching so much TV all I can say is STEP AWAY FROM THE TV!! Watching that much TV will result in radiation poisoning or spirits popping out from too much white noise… good grief.. get a life people.. contrary to popular belief the world does not revolve around an actor’s life.

And regardless of that, do you really think most people are going to go Google what props are used in a commercial or movie to find out whether a cigarette is herbal or whether a bottle actually holds apple juice?

30 Jul 2008 @ 14:14 | Permalink
Toadicus said:

What I find deeply disturbing is how so many people on here have their judgment caps on… so for all you…

Do you have any idea what it takes to make money as an actor? He’s really serious about it… he really wants to do it. What’s your problem? It’s not like the LDS movie scene is making millions of dollars for its actors. I’d have taken the job too… get off your holy stands and get in the real world.

If that wasn’t blunt enough, how’s this: The porn industry makes BILLIONS yearly. Do you seriously believe that some of that money isn’t spent at Mormon establishments? So let’s say you run a restaurant. If someone from a known porn company comes in, do you shoo them from the establishment? Probably no. They’re paying customers. So you serve them, however grudgingly, but you take their money. And it spends the same.

Let’s reverse it. You’re looking for a job, and nobody’s hiring. You need money, but then something comes up at a grocery store where they are gasp open on Sundays. Do you reject the job on principle?

Face it. If your kids are looking to TV personalities as role models, you are failing as a parent (i.e. it’s your fault, not Kirby’s or any other celebrity). If you can’t explain this thing with Kirby to them (should they ask), you are not preparing them to live in the real world. If you are judging Kirby to be less perfect than you, there’s probably a beam stuck in your eye.

Thank goodness God judges perfectly.

Hypocrites.

8 Aug 2008 @ 00:15 | Permalink
JM said:

LOL!

Toadicus, the original post pretty much asked people to put on their judgement caps and respond.

And, if you re-read what you wrote, it looks like you have your’s on pretty snug as well!

8 Aug 2008 @ 13:46 | Permalink
Toadicus said:

JM…

No, that’s NOT what the original post said. It asked (and i quote) “Any thoughts?”. I just can’t see how that translated to your telling me that I’m doing the same thing.

Let me put that in context for you. Did Christ call someone a hypocrite? He sure did. Who? Pharisees. Why? Because they judged others when they themselves didn’t obey the same laws.

So you say that my judgment cap was on as well? If you say so. Personally, I don’t equate myself to Christ, but I think that he probably would have said something similar. I don’t stand in judgment of Kirby, or you, or anyone else on this board; however, calling a spade a spade is a statement of fact; nobody on this board, however, can judge Kirby’s being in this video, yet many have.

I’m not saying I’m perfect; and I certainly get very upset about this, because imho LDS genre movies are (in general) pathetic, to say the least. I think Kirby is a fine actor, and he’s done a good job in the ones I’ve seen… so now what, an actor pursues his craft and we shut him down? Brilliant.

I don’t know what I would have done in that situation. Neither does ANYONE on here, unless they’re Kirby. So if you’re going to make a judgment call, keep that in mind.

So no, I can’t agree with you. And I’ve reread what I said.

8 Aug 2008 @ 22:33 | Permalink
JM said:

Zzzzzzzzz…..

12 Aug 2008 @ 07:18 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Motes and Beams, Toadicus. For someone who isn’t being ‘judgmental’ you are pretty heated up about an issue that doesn’t need that much attention. I agree, people shouldn’t judge Kirby, but he got what he wanted, publicity. :) He’s a performer after all.

12 Aug 2008 @ 07:28 | Permalink
Toadicus said:

Mary, perhaps you didn’t understand. I’m not claiming I’m not wearing my judgment cap – but in the context of judging Kirby Heyborne’s appearance of evil, I’m not.

Let me put my position in context. We actually discussed this IN CHURCH ON SUNDAY AS PART OF A CLASS. And I was amazed at how much people were willing to hold that beam in their own eyes in class. I made reference to Joseph F. Smith’s capitulation on the bar addition in the Hotel Utah, and as a result practically got the silent treatment from ward members. So reading posts here pretty much set me off.

Do I judge Kirby Heyborne to have done something evil? I don’t know one way or the other; I recognize the appearance of evil but I have no idea what the situation is. How could I?

Do I judge hypocrisy and condescension from my fellow ward members and from people (but not all) from this forum? Yep, I do. It’s easy to identify that they have the same perspective I do, which is, they have no idea what the situation is, and therefore shouldn’t judge… and yet they do. To me, that’s an identifiable wrong. Am I making a judgment of them? Of course. Is it a righteous one? God will judge.

12 Aug 2008 @ 09:21 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Toadicus

I do understand. I just think you are beating a dead horse. Most people aren’t judging Kirby, if you read all the comments on this and another related post, but it’s taking too much energy to get as heated as you seem to be getting. I was an original one who said not to judge Kirby, as were many others. The ones who do judge him are mostly commenters and not regular posters here.

But I don’t think Kirby is worried about that right now. His career is looking up.

Ok, I will leave it and do as JM is doing. If you want to carry it on, I would suggest posting about this on your own blog.

12 Aug 2008 @ 09:33 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

Oh and ‘posts here’ set you of or ‘comments’ set you off. If you want controversy and bucking the trend, you will find that among many of the actual posts (remember a post is the original writing, comments are on the posts).

12 Aug 2008 @ 09:35 | Permalink
orange fan said:

did anyone see the comercial where he was getting shot by Mr T with snickers for speed walking? Does that mean he;s gay for walking funny? No hes acting!

22 Sep 2008 @ 15:09 | Permalink
Devin said:

Why’d Miller single out Kirby for the acting position? He’s LDS and we all know they don’t drink alcohol. What, is it Miller’s hope that Kirby will break down the 13 million members and open up their revenues? KEEP DREAMING!

1 Oct 2008 @ 16:05 | Permalink
Mary Siever said:

It was a job. He auditioned, and accepted it. The company didn’t single him out (besides that it would be their advertising company that filmed the commercial). And no company is going to have any worries or ulterior motives regarding an employee or actor. They hire who auditions and is best suited for the job according to what they will do. Kirby is the one who made the decision to take the job. I highly doubt Miller is concerned about members of the church drinking alcohol…

And LDS aren’t SUPPOSED to drink alcohol but that doesn’t mean every single member is alcohol free. Let’s not be naive now.

1 Oct 2008 @ 16:16 | Permalink
roger said:

I forgive him for this. Go Kirby!

16 Oct 2008 @ 12:27 | Permalink
Tyrone said:

Roger and others,

I am pretty sure it’s not up to you to forgive. Many of you people who comment on this are are pathetically judgmental and are the same folks who drive members away from the Church with your self-righteous, holier-than-thou aspersions. It is sad, so sad. Kirby is an excellent person. He does not drink alcohol nor endorse consumption. He does, however, do what is necessary and proper to provide for his family. I think a few of you need to study the scriptures with a bit more objectivity. The stories are about you, that’s right, you, Rameumptom.

8 Nov 2008 @ 10:21 | Permalink
Anonymous said:

kirby is lame!!!!!

13 Nov 2008 @ 23:24 | Permalink
Grace said:

It doesn’t actually depict Kirby drinking anything, and he’s an actor, Acting in commercials is what they do. While it may be viewed negatively by members of his faith (and mine), we’re in a situation with a bad economy, and he needs to support his family. Too bad for those of you who are too self-righteous to realize that.

BTW, if people think their kids are going to start drinking b/c they saw Kirby doing it, they need to spend more time with their own kids. Bad parenting = blaming others for your lack of responsibility.

13 Jan 2009 @ 09:39 | Permalink
Emiliano Genova said:

I from argentina an i said: I think it is wrong what he did kirby because many people with weak faith will see his example, that despite this action, if The Savior was at his side, it would still act?

23 Mar 2009 @ 13:37 | Permalink
Anna said:

Nevertheless, endorsing something which contributes to so much misery and trouble throughout the world is a less than spiritual act in my opinion.

There are plenty of far more worthwhile products and services which could easily have been chosen instead.

15 Dec 2009 @ 08:07 | Permalink
Kim Siever said:

Chosen? How many offers do you think he had on the table?

15 Dec 2009 @ 08:59 | Permalink
Derek said:

It’s amazing to me how sheltered some LDS members are.

Look, he’s an actor, this is his profession. People’s professions rarely directly mimick the beliefs of their religions.

So he was in a beer commercial… so what? Who is anyone else to judge him? It didn’t even show him taking a drink. Mormons are one of THE MOST judgemental groups of people out there.

Everyone take a deep breath…. relax, and move on :)

13 Jan 2010 @ 01:40 | Permalink
Mike Hunter said:

dunno, but somehow I wasn’t impressed by this video…you know, I used to watch some Russian beer commercials, wow, that is really something! some of them are funny as well, but most of them imply to men’s best qualities, like courage, duty, love for freedome… hard to connect all that to beer, but the effect they produce is unbearably strong.

4 Mar 2010 @ 23:54 | Permalink

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