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	<title>Comments on: Cleaning the chapel</title>
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	<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=cleaning-the-chapel-2</link>
	<description>Thought-provoking commentary on life, politics, religion and social issues.</description>
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		<title>By: Mary Siever</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/comment-page-2/#comment-101024</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Siever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/#comment-101024</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It doesn&#039;t cost me that much, and since garments are bigger than underwear, well, it&#039;s pretty inexpensive in my opinion. Also, having bought temple clothing, I know first hand how inexpensive that is.  Not sure where you bought yours at? As well, for first time purchasing, you get 50% off. Temple clothes can last almost a lifetime.The Distribution centre also doesn&#039;t charge enough to make a profit when selling materials. A DVD that costs $4? Can&#039;t find that anywhere else.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That&#039;s up to the individual ward or stake, but ours does, and did where I grew up as well. And every ward we have been in.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It doesn&#8217;t cost me that much, and since garments are bigger than underwear, well, it&#8217;s pretty inexpensive in my opinion. Also, having bought temple clothing, I know first hand how inexpensive that is.  Not sure where you bought yours at? As well, for first time purchasing, you get 50% off. Temple clothes can last almost a lifetime.The Distribution centre also doesn&#8217;t charge enough to make a profit when selling materials. A DVD that costs $4? Can&#8217;t find that anywhere else.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s up to the individual ward or stake, but ours does, and did where I grew up as well. And every ward we have been in.</p>
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		<title>By: Dar</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/comment-page-2/#comment-100970</link>
		<dc:creator>Dar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/#comment-100970</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;inexpensive purchasing of church materials and clothing&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Well, I think that it is crazy how much the church charges for garments, and temple clothing....way more than I spend on underwear. Not to mention how much a quad or song book costs.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Also, not every ward pays for the scout/ cub registration.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;inexpensive purchasing of church materials and clothing&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, I think that it is crazy how much the church charges for garments, and temple clothing&#8230;.way more than I spend on underwear. Not to mention how much a quad or song book costs.</p>
<p>Also, not every ward pays for the scout/ cub registration.</p>
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		<title>By: ltbugaf</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/comment-page-2/#comment-100938</link>
		<dc:creator>ltbugaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 06:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/#comment-100938</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;It&#039;s interesting that you all seem to see no problem with a church operating like a large business.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What I actually said is that I&#039;d like for you to explain what you mean by &quot;operating like a large business.&quot;  How does a large business operate, what particular characteristics of such operation do you claim the Church shares, and what is wrong with them?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;I would have thought that one could expect a church to be run differently than a private corporation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In what ways?  And for what reasons?&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting that you all seem to see no problem with a church operating like a large business.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>What I actually said is that I&#8217;d like for you to explain what you mean by &#8220;operating like a large business.&#8221;  How does a large business operate, what particular characteristics of such operation do you claim the Church shares, and what is wrong with them?</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I would have thought that one could expect a church to be run differently than a private corporation.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>In what ways?  And for what reasons?</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Siever</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/comment-page-2/#comment-100877</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Siever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/#comment-100877</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I am aware of how the church spends my money, and know that much of what &lt;em&gt;I&lt;/em&gt; contribute (probably all) is being used locally. Since I have the free use of my church building, the temple, really inexpensive purchasing of church materials and clothing (and often NONE) as well as parties or events where the ward budget covers everything and to know that the church will be paying for my son&#039;s cub registration in a few months, my daughter gets to go to biweekly Activity days and participate without any cost to her...I think my tithes and offerings are being used generously for the benefit of my family.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And I have locally seen how the church takes care of those in need too. I know this is only a drop in the bucket.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Donating? I don&#039;t see it that way when I personally get more than I actually pay.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am aware of how the church spends my money, and know that much of what <em>I</em> contribute (probably all) is being used locally. Since I have the free use of my church building, the temple, really inexpensive purchasing of church materials and clothing (and often NONE) as well as parties or events where the ward budget covers everything and to know that the church will be paying for my son&#8217;s cub registration in a few months, my daughter gets to go to biweekly Activity days and participate without any cost to her&#8230;I think my tithes and offerings are being used generously for the benefit of my family.</p>
<p>And I have locally seen how the church takes care of those in need too. I know this is only a drop in the bucket.</p>
<p>Donating? I don&#8217;t see it that way when I personally get more than I actually pay.</p>
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		<title>By: rick</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/comment-page-2/#comment-100823</link>
		<dc:creator>rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/#comment-100823</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s interesting that you all seem to see no problem with a church operating like a large business.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I guess that&#039;s what the fundamental disagreement must be.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I would have thought that one could expect a church to be run differently than a private corporation.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Once again, it is your money being used and not mine. I guess I&#039;m just a bit more curious when it comes to how people spend money I donate.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting that you all seem to see no problem with a church operating like a large business.</p>
<p>I guess that&#8217;s what the fundamental disagreement must be.</p>
<p>I would have thought that one could expect a church to be run differently than a private corporation.</p>
<p>Once again, it is your money being used and not mine. I guess I&#8217;m just a bit more curious when it comes to how people spend money I donate.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Siever</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/comment-page-2/#comment-100798</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Siever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:21:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/#comment-100798</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I didn&#039;t ask &#039;do many&#039; I asked &#039;does everyone&#039;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I have nothing to hide but I am not about to share my financial stats with you. I don&#039;t need to know all the financial stats of other churches or private companies. Not sure why you feel the need to know them. But if it&#039;s important to you....&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t ask &#8216;do many&#8217; I asked &#8216;does everyone&#8217;.</p>
<p>I have nothing to hide but I am not about to share my financial stats with you. I don&#8217;t need to know all the financial stats of other churches or private companies. Not sure why you feel the need to know them. But if it&#8217;s important to you&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: ltbugaf</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/comment-page-2/#comment-100724</link>
		<dc:creator>ltbugaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 06:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/#comment-100724</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The Church&#039;s businesses follow the same rules of accounting and record keeping as other businesses.  They&#039;re no more or less secretive than any other corporations.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You&#039;ve mentioned that the Church keeps open records in the UK, according to law.  So surely you&#039;ve found some amazingly juicy tidbits in the information you&#039;ve researched there, right?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If, following your standard, everyone who doesn&#039;t keep his books open to the public must therefore be up to mischief, then why aren&#039;t you publishing your own financial records for the world to see?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;I tend to speculate that they operate more akin to a large private corporation, both in the level of secrecy regarding their books and in the way they acquire assets and in the way that they protect their bottom line.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Are you going to identify what is &lt;em&gt;wrong&lt;/em&gt; with operating like a large private corporation?  Are large, private corporations, by definition, sinister for some reason?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And if what you&#039;ve been doing all along is pure speculation then may I recommend you refrain from such audacious claims as you&#039;ve made above without identifying them as such?  When you state them as facts, what they really become is lies, not just conjectures.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Church&#8217;s businesses follow the same rules of accounting and record keeping as other businesses.  They&#8217;re no more or less secretive than any other corporations.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve mentioned that the Church keeps open records in the UK, according to law.  So surely you&#8217;ve found some amazingly juicy tidbits in the information you&#8217;ve researched there, right?</p>
<p>If, following your standard, everyone who doesn&#8217;t keep his books open to the public must therefore be up to mischief, then why aren&#8217;t you publishing your own financial records for the world to see?</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I tend to speculate that they operate more akin to a large private corporation, both in the level of secrecy regarding their books and in the way they acquire assets and in the way that they protect their bottom line.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Are you going to identify what is <em>wrong</em> with operating like a large private corporation?  Are large, private corporations, by definition, sinister for some reason?</p>
<p>And if what you&#8217;ve been doing all along is pure speculation then may I recommend you refrain from such audacious claims as you&#8217;ve made above without identifying them as such?  When you state them as facts, what they really become is lies, not just conjectures.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim Siever</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/comment-page-2/#comment-100644</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Siever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:44:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/#comment-100644</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Likewise, rick, if they have nothing to hide or be embarrassed about, then there&#039;s no problem keeping them private. So, whether they are private or public isn&#039;t the real issue, but whether there is anything to hide or be embarrassed about.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Likewise, rick, if they have nothing to hide or be embarrassed about, then there&#8217;s no problem keeping them private. So, whether they are private or public isn&#8217;t the real issue, but whether there is anything to hide or be embarrassed about.</p>
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		<title>By: rick</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/comment-page-2/#comment-100639</link>
		<dc:creator>rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/#comment-100639</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;Does everyone open their books to the public?&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Yes, actually. Many churches do.
If they have nothing to hide or be embarrassed about, then there&#039;s no problem.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Does everyone open their books to the public?&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, actually. Many churches do.<br />
If they have nothing to hide or be embarrassed about, then there&#8217;s no problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Siever</title>
		<link>http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/comment-page-2/#comment-100636</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Siever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/10/08/cleaning-the-chapel-2/#comment-100636</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Does everyone open their books to the public? You can access the information. What&#039;s so secretive? I mean, come on.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does everyone open their books to the public? You can access the information. What&#8217;s so secretive? I mean, come on.</p>
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