I think it’s a given that there are many endowed members in the Church who do not wear garments. I’ve always wondered how they come to the decision to stop wearing them. I mean one day they are wearing them, and the next day they’re not. It’s not like they slowly disappear over time.
And for those who do not vehemently oppose the church, I wonder what went through their minds when the decision was made, if a decision was made.
Looks like I was right, way back in comment 70. I’d better just go.
last word huh?
I just keep repeating myself and you just don’t seem to get it at all, but that’s your look out. Just make sure when you stand before the Lord at the judgement, that He knows you did your darndest to make sure people knew what a good boy you were.
WOW, this is my first time to this site and I am amazed at this discussion.
Ultimatley we all have our own opinions. If someone holds a reccommend and was not truthfull in the interview they will have to answer to HF when that time comes. It is not our place to judge that individual.
I do believe in all the temple covenants and I do believe that the General Authorities are men of God. I wear my Garments all the time except for the 3 s’s ( sex, swimming and some sports). This is my choice. We all have our Free Agency and we will be judged for the not keeping our temple covenants. I believe the garments are a covenant that i have entered into with my Heavenly Father and i plan to keep my end of that convenant.
Just my 2 cents, not trying to offend anyone that is 4 sure. THis is just what I believe. I have a testimony of this gospel and I know that we are guided by a living prophet.
speaking of garments… does anyone know if a person can “recyle” them as in give them to others when you no longer can use them such as weight loss or wrong size etc?? Or are they a one person usage? Do you just save them for years or just throw them out ?
I did check the LDS.org site but couldn’t find any quidelines on it
I hear there’s a growing market on ebay…
Marcia: My advice is, be careful about telling us that you’re not judging anyone. Someone may judge that you’re just trying to show what a good girl you are. :(
what a tangled web, eh ltbugaf?
Sally, I am not sure about giving garments to another person. I think it would be ok but i am not sure. I guess that it would have to do with who you are giving them to. Discuss it with your Bishop. I do not think ebay would be appropriate.
Everyone just take a breath, relax … we are all entitled to our views. What we do with our lives is our personal choice and FREE AGENCY!!!! I am really not judging anyone, I feel it pointless for me to do so, especially when i have inperfections of my own.
LOTS OF LOVE & HUGS
ltbugaf
“My advice is, be careful about telling us that you’re not judging anyone. Someone may judge that you’re just trying to show what a good girl you are. :(”
No only when it gets personal and people start saying a person is an apostate. I have my own opinions on what is right and what isn’t right too, but I don’t presume to insinuate or say that person is on the road to hell, just because I don’t agree with what they say or do. I’ll leave that up to the Lord.
Hi, everybody, as to all the junk about taking off the garments for ” reasons” they feel o.k. with. The gospel is simple, people make it complicated. All of you who got garments were instructed when, where and how to wear them and yet you choose not to. That is your choice, and that’s all, just a choice nothing else. So don’t try and justify your disobediance.I know many people who don’t even go to church but they would never think of taking them off, they have a problem with the members not Heavenly Father. Don’t say I’m open minded/free thinking,your justifying. By that same ill- minded (not open minded)way I can drink beer, have extra marital affairs and so-on because beer is not hard drinks and made of grains of the earth which is good for man..and so on, and my wife thinks I’m too fat to be sexy. So it’s ok. And about how you’ve had nothing bad happen to you when not wearing them, faulty logic again..how many people that are not of the church don’t get hurt? They don’t wear garments either. The garments are insurance.
Now my advise is this we should be looking for reasons to keep them on not excuses to take them off. I will close with the following…My heart aches for you. And don’t say anything to me on this because I’ve done all those Stupid things in the past 20 years of making all the same mistakes and lying to myself that it was o.k. and my story is too long. It is obvious that you don’t have/never had a testimony of the temple or the garments or you would not be asking yourself these things. What about coal miners, const. workers and such by your thinking anyone who sweats should take them off, get used to it and it would not be a problem. You are just lairs, when you say this and your lying to yourself…I would ask all of you rethink, read, ponder,pray, you know what is right….I will leave with my final thoughts. If we do not obey the simple easy things like wearing certain things how much harder would it be to obey things such as controlling our thoughts? Joseph in the old testament almost got murdered because the sacred garments, yet you would treat them as rags and of no import.
Did you not lie to your bishop for the temple interview when you made your covenants to him? How would you answer Heavenly Father if he asked you, “MY DARLING CHILD ARE YOU WEARING THE SACRED GARMENTS OF WHICH I HAVE GIVEN YOU?”…. Do you not know that “The Garments are the only Tangable thing on this earth that Heavenly Father gave to you”….. from adam on down. He wanted to protect you both spiritually and physically. Because he loves you so very much!!!!! And Did you not lie to Heavenly Father when you made those oaths and covenants to him in the temple?…….I beg of you please, please, please, don’t do this. If I could take my heart out give you my testimony of these things so you would know, as through my heartache and repentance I’ve come to know I would gladly give you it. That is how much these things mean to us. I love you brothers and sisters.
Joey!
Hey everbody again,just finishing up.
It’s o.k. to judge. Just be careful of judging things you lack.
We judge all the time, who to date, and what church to join. Judging in and of it’s self is not the problem, but it is how we judge.
Again love you all.
Bro. Joey
“We judge all the time, who to date, and what church to join.”
Or whether to turn left at 16th or to keep going straight on 20th. That happened to me yesterday.
So this conversation flared up again eh? Why doesn’t everyone just agree to disagree and go our seperate ways? YIKES.
K.
on what/
This site is based in Canada, where at? just curious
Well, three of us are in Lethbridge, one in Raymond, one in Calgary, one in Edmonton, one in Surrey (Vancouver area) and one in northern BC.
WELL SAID JOEY. I agree with you!!!
I don’t judge people about things that I suck at…Hehe.
K.
I’m confused: Why isn’t Joey meeting the same wall of disapproval I met, when he tells Steve not to try to justify his choice, or that he’s lying to himself?
Maybe because he mentioned it once and then dropped it.
Or maybe because with no one replying to him, he didn’t have any criticisms, arguments or accusations to answer. :)
HUH?
K.
Maybe it is better to mention once and then drop it, but you shouldn’t be too hard on Mary. :)
I fully agree with Joey and applaud his faith. he is correct in everything he said. Either you are going to obey the Lord or your not. It’s that simple. Either you’re on the Lords side or you’re not. If you want to be disobedient you can make what ever excuse you want. Brigham Young said his greates fear for the saints was not tribulations. It was Prosperity. He further said that he feared tthat the saints would “qualify themselves strait to hell”. If we make excuses why we don’t have to obey we are qualifying ourselves.
“Either you’re on the Lords side or you’re not.”
Can you say Jihad, kids?
I knew you could…
Rick, I’m sure you’re too intelligent to equate this kind of statement with a call to violence against unbelievers. So why do it?
When dogmatic adherence to a religion supercedes rational thought, what else are we left with?
The roots of Jihad are sewn in the black and white world of the zealot.
To the rational man, the world is shades of gray.
Wait, let me guess…there are “no absolutes,” right?
Absolutely no absolutes?
Rick: The words are not mine, but from the scriptures. I am not in any way suggesting any violence or even a heated discussion. I am only re-stating that which has been stated by Prophets throughout history. Samuel, Kings, Psalms Proverbs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and almost every other book in the scriptures condemns those who are disobedient. If you have a problem with what I say, then I am sorry. My intent was not to offend. But the words of our Prophets and aposteles say the same thing. The scriptures are quite clear. How you take it is up to you.
“When dogmatic adherence to a religion supercedes rational thought, what else are we left with?”
Rational thought? What is so irational about “I the Lord am bound when you do what I say but when ye do not what I say ye have no promise”? or any other scripture where the Lord talks about the disobedient?
“How you take it is up to you.”
True enough, and I think you can see what I think of it. ;)
“What is so irational about…”
The irrationality lies in dividing the world up into the people obeying the gods and those not. If the question,”Is this person doing the god’s will?” comes before any other thought process when making decisions – I call that irrational.
I just got home from watching the General Priesthood meeting and I opened this blog for the first time. As I read thru the thread the thought came to me about how Satan’s plan was to force everyone to Heaven. It seems like some of the writers want to force everyone thru name calling. I have found that when someone has an issue with someone in authority, there is often a reason for it. Perhaps this group is too young to remember the Great Paul H Dunn who was loved for the great talks he gave and then towards the end of his life someone finally listen to this guy who was saying PHD was making up his stories. Sure enough, those great talks were not true. PHD was not allowed to ever speak in public again and he was an Apostle. God will force no man to Heaven. I am going to start again to keep this short.
Tonight a GP meeting I heard a story about how Mormons kids had treated a non member kid so bad that he wanted nothing to do with the Church. Another member had brought him into the Church thru love. I have seen first hand Mormon parents not letting their children play with children of less active or non mormons. The hurt of being rejected can last a life time.
The Prophet spoke tonight and what I heard was he wanted us to stop not loving each other. You really need to hear his talk. It was wonderful. I have resolved to change my life and try to follow his counsel.
Paul H Dunn wasn’t an apostle, he was a seventy. I remember that he was reprimanded for his stories. That made me sad, because I have always loved his talk (actually we aren’t THAT young here. I am just about 35).
It always hurts me when I hear of LDS treating non LDS poorly. How awful. We do need to love one another. After all, Jesus Christ wasn’t a member of the Church. Being raised myself, in a small LDS community (i.e I was one of three members attending my high school) I had more non member friends than member friends. People are people. There are good and bad everywhere and we need to all remember that our Father in Heaven loves us all. Being LDS doesn’t make us better than others. It’s sad that there are those who think it makes us superior to others.
Garments – There are lots of simple reasons a person can give why they do not wear their garments. But the real reason is they are hurting somewhere in their life and not wearing their garment is a way to help soften their pain. Often the pain and a Church leader are involved. Calling someone a name because they are hurting just pushes them farther away from solving their problem.
My first wife was not able to have more children and we did in-vitro a couple of times (at great cost back then). She went thru great pains to be a mother and to become pg and then lose the babies several times is very hard. We were suffering after losing a child and attending church was just not something she was able to do at that point in time so we has missed maybe 4 Sundays. During our suffering the hurts we were feeling were expressed to some members of the church. The Elders Quorum President came to our home and without listening to our hurts he religiously cussed us out for not attending with words very similar to the ones Itbugaf and Kris like to spout off.
If any of you women have lost a baby, I’m sure you understand the grief a mother feels over the loss of a child and the loss of not being a mother in Zion.
My wife was so upset over what the EQP had said that she took off her garments and never put them back on. In time she decided the Church and Marriage was not for her.
It’s a fact that often a marriage cannot survive the loss of a child.
to Itbugaf and Kris – Call me any name you want – you do not affect me. However, I challenge you to go to your Stake Library and check out the tape from tonight’s General President meeting and listen to the Prophet’s words. You remind me of the very people he wants to stop the fighting with other members. I sure see you in his talk.
To Steve EM and any others – I would love to hear what you are in pain over. I have great compassion for others. Perhaps in time I will share with you the great depths of pain and suffering I went thru and how it has become a blessing.
Personally – I would rather you not wear your garments and come to Church than to wear them and not come to Church.
I really do want to hear your story – the good the bad and the ugly is ok with me.
“to Itbugaf and Kris – Call me any name you want – you do not affect me.”
OK. What names have I called you?
I have to admit I haven’t seen ltbugaf call any names either. He just calls people to repentance.
Christ did both.
Well, I wouldn’t say Christ called names. He just called people what they were. And if He so, has more right to than we do. No one has a right to call anyone a name unless they are blameless in every regard.
“to Itbugaf and Kris – Call me any name you want – you do not affect me.â€
*snort*
K.
“If any of you women have lost a baby, I’m sure you understand the grief a mother feels over the loss of a child and the loss of not being a mother in Zion.”
AS a matter of fact, and although Ann will surely say she has lost triplets, I have suffered through miscarriages, 2 to be exact. A very painful and personal trial that I do not think anyone ever truly gets over, especially if the baby was lost quite late in a pregnancy.
Did people who were not aware of the situation act stupidly and put their feet in their mouths? Of course, such is the nature of human beings. I did not in either case though feel the need to stop wearing my garments and leave the church. If I had used that as an EXCUSE to leave the church, I would have been making a grievous decision.
So back to the garments thread, members of the church do make way too many EXCUSES to not wear their garments in my opinion.
Kris
This is true. When I lost my baby it was the hardest, most painful experience. It didn’t turn me away from the Gospel though. In many ways it made me stronger, even after the cruel and thoughtless things that were said. It made me more compassionate and understanding for what others have gone through. And having experienced some very sacred things in relationship to my lost baby, I want to see him and hold him one day. My wonderful children hold their own places in my heart, and he, my first child, still holds a place and is very real to me, in spite of the very long time since he left us. And I was only a few months along. I do think the longer they are with you the harder it can be, but even early losses are incredibly hard and it can either help strengthen you spiritually, or not. But either way it is a tragic experience.
Mary,
I quite agree. Thank you for sharing.
K.
Kris
And thank you for sharing. It is a personal thing I know, and takes courage to do so.
The last few comments were really nice. Thanks for sharing them.
Mary: Luke 13:32
Thank you both for sharing your experiences.
I also was inspired by President Hinkleys Talks, both during the priesthood, and the other general sessions.
While I hope I am not guilty of any of the sins he sopke of, I know that I tend to say things that are not meant to be hurtfull, but they still hurt. If I have done this I am sorry.
Thing is, Jihad is, to use Mormon terminology, an inner struggle against the natural man. It’s not about killing unbelievers except to the extremists.
ltbugaf: translations. Just becuase the word was used didn’t necessarily mean that’s what the Saviour said exactly. His meaning may have been something similar, but he wasn’t a childish name caller. His terms were singularly accurate, not random name calling. Since there is ample evidence that translators changed things willy nilly, I feel confident in attributing a good character in the Saviour.
Mary: Since you believe that using that term for someone is an indication of bad character, you assume that the translation must be wrong. After all, it couldn’t be you who’s wrong.
And I invite you, too, to please point out the name-calling I’ve done here.
qui: I’m aware of the more refined meaning of “jihad” in Islam. But it should be painfully obvious to you that Rick wasn’t using it in that way. He was just using his usual purple-faced hyperbole to tear down those who choose to have faith in God rather than trust entirely in their own judgment.