While continuing in President Hinckley’s challenge last night, I came across the following passage in Mosiah 26:34?¢‚Ǩ‚Äú36:
And it came to pass that Alma went and judged those that had been taken in iniquity, according to the word of the Lord.
And whosoever repented of their sins and did confess them, them he did number among the people of the church;
And those that would not confess their sins and repent of their iniquity, the same were not numbered among the people of the church, and their names were blotted out.
So why don’t we do this today? Why not purge the church of dead wood? Would we better off? Verse 37 said that as a result of his efforts, Alma saw many people join the church after such purging.
The rest of the story – Do you think the boy ever came back to Church after being treated that way? The boys parents called the Bishop on his actions and this was the Bishop’s story – He had just finished interviewing a teenage girl who had admitted to taking drugs and when she was asked were she got them from, she said all the kids in Seminary were buying and taking the drugs on the way home from Seminary. the Bishop wanted to get ride of the drug pusher in his ward.
Age mistake – the boy was 16. The real story – The 16 year old boy did not know the other kids were taking drugs. He went to a different high school. He lived in a different part of town. His mother drive him and his siblings to Seminary every morning. The other kids in the Ward rode together in a car and bought their drugs from one of the well liked boys in the Ward.
As the boy was sitting on the ground bleeding and his clothes torn, how many adults that saw this happen do you think came to help the boy? The answer is none. The Bishop did it, do not get involved. After the boys parents proved their son was innoncent do you think the Bishop made any attempt to apolize? To make things right? He threw an innocent boy out of the Church with mistaken information. Told the boy to never return. The answer is that the Bishop never made any attempt to right his wrong.
Are you really sure the Bishop you mentioned had accurate information? That he made the correct choice for this woman’s salvation you mentioned?
Would you still attend if your Bishop threw your son out the door and told him to never return? How would you feel if your son came home bloodied and crying from Church?
The story is really true. It really did happen.
man oh man what a lot of “he said she said”. It’s ironic how many people we “know” that heard from someones neighbor’s 2nd cousin who heard it from their wife’s aunt twice removed who would swear on a stack of bibles she got it straight from the Bishop’s mouth that such and such happened in a Church Court. These courts are not done in revenge. Action is taken ONLY after much fasting and praying and NEVER on hearsay NOR on one person’s point of view. Nor are they ever done in haste.
3 different times in my church life I have been a part of a church court with an immediate member of my family and or myself and not once was it done as mentioned in several of the posts above. I also have been a bystander waiting patiently, once for a close friend, once for a visiting teaching companion and twice for a sister I visit taught, outside a Bishops and Stake President’s offices in 2 different provinces waiting the outcome of such a court. And each time the door would open with not only the person that the court was being held for but with the brethren all in tears of sadness. Not once did any of the brethren come out and yell BEGONE you sinner!! Stay out and don’t ever come back!
Now obviously what goes on behind closed doors stays there. If people that had the court choose to delve into what happened that is their choice but I am a firm believer that there is always 3 sides to every story. The right side, the wronged side and Christ’s side.
Someone mentioned above that you are only in a leadership position if you are a Bishop or higher. What crock! There is a lot that goes on in a ward that people are not privy too. The general consensus of members never get the real story they only ever get to hear the gossip, the rumours that get fueled with fire. The exaggerations… the “have you heard’s”… each time the so called TRUE story gets retold new facts get added so that by the time it gets around the congregation the news is not even remotely close to what it started out being.
I go to Ward Council every single month .. oh gee maybe I shouldn’t go seeing as how I am not in a leadership position… cool I can sleep in now :) and each time I get to hear information about children I have stewardship over of how I need to make sure they are taken care of because of something going on. This is my 4th time in a presidency on a ward and stake level and not once have I ever been in a room where a Branch President/Bishop/Stake President did a whoop up dance for having to say so and so’s name has had to be removed from the rolls. Not once.
I guess I must attend the wrong circles.
Sally – These stories are not gossip stories. The only people who know about them outside of those who will read this blog, is a small number of people. There was also no mention that Church leaders do a whoop dance when they ex someone. I am unaware of any calling a sister can have that requires her to be married. I believe that requirement starts with being a Bishop. I sorry to hear that you have been involved (outside the door) in so many Church Courts. It looks like you were involved with about 6 of them. Did any of them involved excommunication? If so, was it a woman or a man. If a man, has he/them returned to full fellowship? Priesthood restored?
Only about 16% of men who are ex-ed return to full activity in the Church. You say yours was family related so I expect you would know the answer if it was a family member that was exed.
Read # 39 – The Elder that was kidnapped and raped 1n 1975. I expect you are too young to have heard about this one. I was there when it happened.
The BYU Coed’s – I know them. Please don’t make light of the way they were treated. What if it had happened to you or your daughter?
The 16 year old boy – I know him too.
The Church is full of good honest people who are trying to do what is right and there are also those who are not doing what is right.
The question I have for you is this – If you knew your Husband or Son only had a 16% chance to return to the Church, would you risk having his named purged from the records of the Church? Would you cross his name off the records knowing that if he did not make it (only 16 men out of 100 do) he would be lost for forever? Or would you do everything you could to help him repent?
Is excommunication the best we as a Church have to help people overcome their faults?
Bill
“It looks like you were involved with about 6 of them. Did any of them involved excommunication?”
Yes ex for 3 of them, 3 of them disfellowshipped and 2 on probation
“If so, was it a woman or a man. If a man, has he/them returned to full fellowship? Priesthood restored?”
EX: 2 were men 1 was woman: both men have returned to full fellowship with PH restored. Woman as far as I know has not yet returned
DF: 2 were men 1 was woman all have returned to full membership and PH for the men
PB: 1 female with full return
“Read # 39 – The Elder that was kidnapped and raped 1n 1975. I expect you are too young to have heard about this one.”
I was already married and had 2 children by 1975 but had not joined the church till 1978 so did not know about the young man
“The BYU Coed’s – I know them. Please don’t make light of the way they were treated. What if it had happened to you or your daughter?”
I worked for 10 years as a councilor at a Sexual Assault Centre. I would never treat lightly the issue of sexual assault whether it was a male or a female that was the victim.
“The question I have for you is this – If you knew your Husband or Son only had a 16% chance to return to the Church, would you risk having his named purged from the records of the Church? Would you cross his name off the records knowing that if he did not make it (only 16 men out of 100 do) he would be lost for forever? Or would you do everything you could to help him repent?”
Out of my 5 children 3 are inactive. One is slowly working his way back, two have no intentions at this point to do so. Are they doing anything “bad” that would account for them needing to have their names purged? No, other then breaking the Words of Wisdom, not keeping the Sabbath Day Holy, not paying tithing etc.
One of them is in our ward and during ward council the missionaries and EQP discuss ways of working with him in bringing him and other inactives back. He grew up having Elders at our home constantly. He went on mini missions many times during his teen years.
If he decided he does want to come back will he have to meet with the Bishop? Absolutely. Will he end up having to repent of his wrongdoings? Absolutely. Is it possible he will have to face church court for what he is doing now? Yup. Will I try and get him to return and just say he had just taken a sabbatical so nothing “bad” will happen in his visit with the Bishop? Not on your life.
I am the Primary President in our ward right now and we are teaching the children that there are consequences for all of our actions. Every one of them. It does not matter if you are a child or an adult, when you do something wrong you have to make it right.
This month we are studying and memorizing the 4th article of Faith. Part of that is Repentance. It HAS to be done!!! If my husband or son had to go through excommunication for something he/they did I would stand by them every inch of the way. I would rather they go through this to redeem themselves in this life then to lie to themselves and the Lord. They can just come back without saying anything to the Bishop but you know what? Come judgement day it will all come out in the wash.
You asked if I would do everything I could to help him repent? Yes of course I would. And I am. And if part of that repentance is confession then he/they have to do it. Otherwise what was the point of being sealed together as a family. The rules hold for everyone not just the select few.
Stop thinking of it as a bad thing.. church courts. Think of it as a law that got broken. If someone came into your home and murdered your child or your spouse would you not expect them to be punished?
If you saw someone repeatedly speed would you not expect them to be punished by the courts? If you saw someone stealing would you not expect them to get caught and then punished?
Why would our laws be any different? Why do you feel that people should be allowed to do whatever they wish with no obedience to the laws that God has set forth for us? When my now husband and I were looking for a church to attend after we met, (I was Catholic and he was Anglican) I was turned away from the Catholic churches we checked out. Well actually we were welcomed until they found out I was divorced and they said I could stay and attend but would not be able to get married again in the Catholic church because I had broken the law by getting a divorce.
My husband was told the same on the one Sunday we attended the church his parents had always gone to. It didn’t matter that we wanted to attend church.. We felt it was what God wanted us to be doing but yet we could not get married in either of them.
A law is a law is a law. You break it you pay for it. Either you pay now or you pay on Judgement Day either way you will end up having to pay for it. What it ends up being is really… none of us (unless we are actually the ones IN the church court) can actually say what happened in there. We ONLY have the word of the person coming out. The PH do not ever disclose what went on in the court.
Is what we are hearing one sided? Of course. We always want to minimize what happened. After all none of us want to admit we were stupid enough to have done what we did. And PLEASE I am not implying that the females at BYU did not get attacked or the other males in your messages. I am talking about people in general who have been excommunicated and it ended badly.
Some really really do feel that they should have gotten away with a slap on the wrist and when it turns out to be something more they get angry and it gets blown out of proportion. And the bishopric or high councilmen or Stake Presidency who presided can not and will not defend what they did in public. They will have to account for their stewardship on Judgement Day like the rest of us.
In closing I just want to say that not once Bill did I say YOUR stories were falsified or exaggerated. I was talking in generalities. You gave instances where things went badly according to you with those court proceedings. I have given instances where things went a different way. Excommunications are done as a repentance process. Not to clean out the ward clerk’s attendance roster.
Sally – It looks like you had a lot to say. Like you I have 5 children. I also have 3 children that have left the Church for various reason but the common thread is the way they were treated by Church Leaders. Just to be clear – none of the stories involve my children. Need to go to a meeting – I will answer your missive when I get back.
Regarding comment #47:
Sarah: “ltbugaf, Are you for real?”
Answer: I think so. It’s possible I’m a hologram, but no one has ever told me so.
Sarah: “I hope you don’t have a position of authority because you sound like an ignorant, boneheaded cretin who likes to quote scripture but always misses the big picture…”
Answer: As I already explained to Dean on another thread, I think we can save a lot of time by just working on the assumption that I am evil incarnate, that I’m every bad adjective you can come up with and more, that I’m the worst person who has ever existed. That way you won’t have to waste your time and everyone else’s with these little name-calling episodes and ad hominem attacks. (Perhaps there should be a separate, open thread titled “Why ltbugaf is a jerk.”)
Sarah: “…a church ministers to its members to help them come to God and Jesus….”
Answer: True. Or at least it’s true that some churches do. I believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does. I’m puzzled, though—is this supposed to be an argument against something I’ve said? If so, what?
Sarah: “…you sound like the guy who always throws the first stone…”
Answer: See my second answer above.
ltbugaf
Just for the record, I want to let you know I don’t think you are a jerk. I do think you have very strong opinions, often judgemental (but aren’t we all) and sometimes you are very harsh towards people. Do I think you are a bad person? No. You often have much of value to offer here (and I am sure elsewhere).
I don’t think anyone should be calling names. For a number of reasons, but one is, we (most of us) don’t know each other in PERSON. We know each other on the internet, and often assumptions are made just based on knowing someone online. The only people I know personally, are, of course my husband, my mother in law (Sally), Nikki (though we don’t see each other in person much anymore!), Jeff and Duncan sort of (rather, acquaintances, but Kim knows/knew them more than I do). Everyone else, I just know via the computer. Not really a good basis for deciding on who they truly are.
For example, there are those who decide they have Kim pegged by everything he says here. And that’s without even the benefit of seeing his countenance or hear his tone of voice, etc etc. Like Kris decided he doesn’t have as strong of a testimony as I and his mother believe he does. But then, she doesn’t have the advantage of seeing him daily, of having raised him, of seeing the little things he does, and on and on.
Anyway, I think we all rend to jump to conclusions about each other. I apologise if anything I have said has hurt your feelings or offended you. I tend to react to people being attacked, in defense. I always do this because I jsut don’t think it’s right.
In the same vein I don’t think it is right for YOU to be called names and so Sarah, please don’t. People aren’t “things”, they can ACT like certain things, but we each are children of Heavenly Father. He loves all of us. Whatever our faults and shortcomings.
Mary – You always seem to know what to write. I am very impressed with the opinions you express. Kim is not bad either.
Sally – Sorry for the delay. Sundays are a busy day for me. I have about 20 minutes before I leave again.
My family has been in the Church for about 100 years. I’m sure we have seen the good, the bad and the ugly.
You and your husband left the Church’s you grew up in basically because of the way they treated you when you wanted to marry. I expect there were other reasons also but that was a focal point for you. People who leave the LDS church tend to do the same thing you did and that is to find a church that welcomes them. Did the Catholic Church or the Church of England (US version) excommunicate you or your husband for joining the LDS church? hum? The LDS Church will do that. How would you feel if the Catholic Church exed you becomes you feel in love with your husband?
The question that had been posed is not about a person who attends church and confess but about a person who falls in love, makes a mistake and instead of confessing and going through a Church Court, they go inactive for several years. They then are reactived (good HT story) and confess to the bishop that they had made a mistake. The chances of a Church Court is very low. The average # of men who return to the Church after being exed is about 16%. The number who go inactive and then return and confess is closer to 100%. Which group would you prefer your child to be in? That is the question.
There was also a story by ltbugaf about a lady he HT that had not attended Church in years and his Bishop exed her. My question is and has been “Why ex someone who does not attend”?
I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on these matters. Bill
Side note – I have a relative that was very inactive during his 20’s. He slept with many different women. In his early 30’s, he meet a woman (late 20’s) and they fell in love. She wanted a Temple Marriage. He went in to his Bishop and confessed and since he was getting married, he had a short probation. 40 years later, he is still an active member of the Church and raised a family in the Church. If he had a Bishop that felt like he needed to ex him while he was in his 20’s, I doubt he would have married and raised a family in the Church. So I go back to the original question – What is better – to ex or to wait and allow a person the chance to repent?
Time to go again.
Sarah – I hope you will continue to post comments, I need all the help I can get. The right wing zealots have me out numbered. While I think they are off base on and cause people to leave the Church, some of their answers are actually quite good. While I do not always agree with ltbugaf, I do try and respect his opinions. It takes two or more sides to have a discussion. If we all agreed with the right wingers, there would be nothing to say except YES I will blindly follow.
Do you know the difference between a right wing fantic and a left wing fantic? Only the direction they went to get there.
Bill, who else but me are you pigeonholing as a “right-wing zealot”?
I have been through a church court. Because of my dumb choices I was disfellowshipped. It was the worst year of my life. I felt then and since (It has been more then 20 years) that it was a court of love. I know it is a difficult thing that these leaders do. I would never want to have to do their job.
Bill
Thank you for your kind words. I don’t often feel very eloquent, lol.
ltbugaf – Have you ever voted for a Democrat?
Actually I would guess you to be a right wing zealot only on the subject of Mormonism. I respect your thoughts and the effort you put into expressing them. It takes at least two sides to have a discussion on any topic. I most likely seem to be a liberal but I am not not.
I would vote Libertarian if they would stop putting drug lovers on the ballot.
I tend to be much more liberal when it comes to matters of religion. When I was 32 I found myself going thru a divorce (she no longer believed the Church to be true and was dating need I say more?) The SP recommended the divorce. I of course had to move which meant a new ward. The Bishop of that Ward told me he had no single men and for me to find another church (exact words). He also told the Elders quorum not to HT me. The next Ward I moved to the Bishop would not allow me to hold a calling because I was getting a divorce. The divorce took a year and after it was over, I was told I could not hold a calling for a year because I had gotten a divorce. I had done nothing wrong in fact I was a Stake Missionary when all of this started.
The 3rd Bishop would not even talk to me.
The 4th Ward I lived in had a very loving and kind Bishop who went out of his way and got my records.
The 5th ward was a Singles Ward that included the over 30’s. I meet my wife at a Single Ward Dance (she attended a family ward with her children) and we married 3 months later in the Temple.
The 6th Bishop (My wife’s Bishop gave me a calling after we married). I went 3 years without a church calling, home teachers, etc because my wife left the Church and I became a Single Man. Talk about the effects of Free Agency.
During the 3 years I was single, I met many members and ex members of the church who were hurting and were being excluded from Church activities. They so much wanted to feel God’s love. I think all of the pain and sorrow I saw and the effects of excommunication and disfellowship and exclusion from the Church made me change. I remember the sister whose husband was in their Bishopric and ran off with the YW President crying as she told me how her friends at Church would no longer speak to her. She had lost her Church calling because of him. The crying and begging from sisters who were told by a new Bishop of the Singles Ward that they had to attend a family ward if they had children. I remember one sister crying as she was telling the Bishop that he was forcing her to go inactive.
I was getting married so it did not affect me. But what did affect me was the pain I saw from rules and regulations that excluded some from church.
I guess I am trying to say, I am a liberal mormon because I feel in my heart that God wants us to love everyone. When you see the effects that purging has on real lives, it no longer sounds like a good ideal.
I consider myself a Crunchy Conservative (although that is an American term, and I am Canadian. But either way, it describes me).
Bill, do you have any plans to answer #63?
Bill, re: #49 Who excommunicated the returned missionary?
ltbugaf – are you trying to claim the title of the only right wing zealot?
# 49 goes to # 36 which never stated he was exed.
Are you going to answer # 66?
Have you ever wondered why Mosiah prayed for his sons when he could have should have just excommunicated them? Purged them from the church. Did their father being the King/Prophet make a difference? Do you think that perhaps King Mosiah lived a Christ like life and praying was the better choice over purging?
I have never known anyone to be exed for not attending church. I do not think it should happen. I have seen someone exed (rcently) for blatent, Overt apostacy.
Also, the church now tries to find other routes than Exing people unless they are unrepentant.
Bill, no. I’m not going to answer whether I’ve ever voted for a Democrat. There’s no reason to ask or answer that question.
It was a joke – I’m sure you have heard it said many times, can you be a Mormon and a Democrat?
Ask David O. McKay.
“The crying and begging from sisters who were told by a new Bishop of the Singles Ward that they had to attend a family ward if they had children. I remember one sister crying as she was telling the Bishop that he was forcing her to go inactive.”
Which, of course wasn’t true. He was asking her to attend a different ward, not to stop coming to church.
Bill when you said the sisters went crying and begging cause they had to leave the Singles ward if they had a family.. are you talking about YSA? OR just a singles ward? Cause eiter way if you have children you need to attend a family ward as you have a family. Our daughter used to attend YSA until she became pregnant and then had to attend our ward (where she lived) and it was suggested that she attend the ward activities and not the YSA activities or meetings. There was no crying or begging whatsoever.
You sure have been a part of some far off wards/branches and seem to know a lot of people that only have negative experiences with the church. When we first joined the church and we’re taking the temple preparation classes the instructor told us (actually it is the only thing I even remember from those classes) that the church is perfect the members human beings and if we could remember that we would be fine. I have always remembered that.
My comment has nothing to do with church purging, but on this YSA issue. I agree that a individual with children should follow the counsel of a bishop and attend a family ward. However, you would think a bishop would still allow the individual to attend YSA activites. When you are single regardless if you have children or not, maintaining contact with other LDS singles is important perhaps essential for their personal progression.
I believe they still can attend YSA activities, except their children need to be able to attend Primary if need be. All the YSA women I have known, with children were expected to attend family wards, but could go to any activities or dances.
In the early days of the church the saints were predominantly Democrat. The Democrats had the most acvcepting view of anything new like the church.
Sally # 77 – A single woman (with children) is often treated different by the married women. Some kind of defence to the possibility of the single mother stealing their husbands. It might not be spoken but the single mothers feel it enough to mention it often. Being accepted by your peers is very important.
What about the single fathers? Where are they? What ward do they attend? Is it fair that they can attend a single ward but the mother cannot?
Why should a singles ward have age limits? What is the difference between being 30 or 31? 34 for that matter?
Could it be something so simple as let’s hide marriage failures from the youth? If the YSA hear get married get married – will they marry faster or if they see all the broken marriages, will they hold off? Perhaps commit sin by not getting married quick at a young age?
I guess that takes us back to purging the church of those who make mistakes.
Any guess as to the percentage of those who go thru the horrors of divorce and remain active.
1/3 of the Church is single.
Sally – Has you daughter married? If so, where did she meet her husband? Is he LDS? What if she did not live in your ward and had 3 children and no sisters would speak to her because she was single?
Your daughter is not in the same situtation as a mother whose husband leaves and she is alone. What if she was not allowed to have a church calling because he left? Would these things change or views?
Bill, I’ve never heard of a woman being unable to have any church callings because her husband left. Have you?
“A single woman (with children) is often treated different by the married women. Some kind of defence to the possibility of the single mother stealing their husbands. It might not be spoken but the single mothers feel it enough to mention it often. Being accepted by your peers is very important.”
Being a married woman with single mother friends, I tend to resent this comment. I certainly don’t think my single mother friends are out to get my husband. As a matter of fact, I totally respect them because it is AWFULLY hard to be a single parent.
I have also never heard of a single mother being unable to have church callings because her husband left her. Really, Bill, WHERE do you live where such things happen?
I have lived in two countries in several wards and NEVER lived in a place where women would not speak to a single mum because she was single.
Mesa,Arizona is where it happened. Men and women were not allowed to hold church callings if they went thru a divorced. It did not matter if they were not the cause of the divorce. I saw all kinds of evil by members there. They would turn their backs, not speak to other members who divorced. I even saw where active Mormons would not allow their children play with other Mormon childen if the parents were divorcing. I even saw a case where a young girl was sexually abused by a man in her ward and the members of her ward would not allow their children play with the little girl.
Often Church Purging is not necessary because Church members take care of it first.
The Saviour said – Come until me all who are perfect. Do I it correct?
The Saviour never said that.
Perhaps this happened in some parts of Mesa, but I am sure not all Arizonians are like this. What individuals do is not the Church’s fault. I have never seen such behaviour anywhere else where I have lived.
Bill, the overall problem is that you just keep coming up with one horror story after another after another after another, and nearly all of them are both inconsistent with Church instructions and/or Church doctrines, and nearly all of them are inconsistent with what most of us have experienced. It wears your credibility thin in some of our eyes.
So in a nice way you are saying I am a liar. Perhaps you live in an area where the real world does not also reside. Or perhaps you are naive and do not notice what really happens.
I used Mesa as an example because the majority of citizens there are also lds. Did you know that Mesa, AZ had (do not know if it is still true) at one time had the highest percentage of Eagle Scouts who were also charged with rape?
There was a study done to determine if the strict morals of the lds church were part of the reasons why an Eagle Scout would commit rape.
The Church also conducted tests to see if they could bring homosexuals back into the church and turn them away from being a homosexual.
I totally agree with you that the stories are inconsistent with Church Doctrine but they are all true. Just because a person goes to Church and holds a position of authority does not mean they always do the correct thing.
So if we can agree that church leaders do not always do the corect thing, does that make them evil? Can they hold a position of authority and also be evil?
Bill, I though Mesa was about 30% LDS. Do you have a reference for the statistic?
When I lived there it was over 50%. I know the East Valley has grown like crazy so it is possible the percentages have changed. The town of Gilbert used to be 70% LDS 20% Catholic and 10% everything else. I expect it is no longer 70% lds.
Actually, Bill, I wasn’t really thinking you were a liar. I was leaning more towards thinking that you don’t have all the facts right on many or most of the stories you tell.
(I’m also toying with the possibility that you’re a fictional character—a made-up persona by someone who wants to stir things up on the ‘blog. Probably not, though. The first explanation seems more plausible.)
That is really quite interesting Itbugaf because I have been thinking the same thing about you. I find it hard to believe that anyone could have views like those you express and be a Mormon.
My guilt feeling is that you do not work. You enjoy putting others down to make yourself feel better.
The more righteous than thou tone of your writtings are not in harmony with the Gospel.
Stir things up – that is also interesting – Puting forth a question is not stiring things up unless you are a commie in disguse. The Chinnese govenrment would agree with you on that topic.
You take small parts of what someone writes and twist it around to what they did not write.
The only other plausible explanation is that you are really an evil being in the disguise of a religious person.
Let’s save that last one for the special “Best of Angry Personal Insults” section of the “Why Ltbugaf Is a Jerk” thread.
OK, Bill, time to stop kidding around. I confess. I’m ALL the things you say I am.
I’m a fictional, evil, out-of-work, non-Mormon, covert communist with an inferiority complex.
Your powers of clairvoyance have foiled me yet again.
Itbuaf – You come across as a right wing zealot. There is no difference between a right wing zealot and a left wing zealot except the path they took to get there. You have lots of good things to say and yet you ruin it. One of the beauties of the gospel is that people get to make choices (good or bad) and you come across as there are no choices except yours. That is the same thing Satan wanted. You find fault with those who write way too often. Publish your thoughts, you have some good one.
By the way – What kind of work do you do?
Please pardon the omissions: Make that a fictional, evil, out-of-work, hypercritical, manipulative, twisted, non-Mormon, covert communist and right wing zealot(!) with an inferiority complex.
In answer to your question, I do the second best work I can imagine being paid for. Next to acting, it’s just about the most fun you can have with your pants on.
Well Yes but what kind of work?
The Church needs to be strict. We need to enforce the no cola rule again. It makes the members stronger.
Enforce what no cola rule?
There never was a no cola rule.
The Church needs to read its’ own doctrine.
Don’t you mean Bill needs to read the doctrine? He’s the one who’s confused, not “the Church.”
Bill, you’ve got me confused with your question in #96. You already informed me that I’m out of work. Now you ask what my job is. Which position are you taking? Do you have any retractions to make?